[tator]

Here's a topic I'd like to discuss, youth hunt weekends. Now before everything thinks I'm against letting youngsters hunt, I'M NOT! I think this is a great idea and I absolutely agree with having a youth hunt weekend or even WEEK where only youth can hunt. That is the perfect thing for them to get them excited and enrolled in deer hunting university.

My concern lyes solely with Missouri's timing of the youth hunt. Each year, we start our main firearms season in the early-mid November. This year it start this upcoming weekend (12th). Youth season has always been the weekend before this start of firearms season (last weekend, Nov 5 and 6). I completely understand Missouri's reasoning behind holding this youth hunt during this time period- the rut is beginning and many deer are up on their feet all hours of the day. Therefore, youngsters are going to see deer, they are going to be successful and they are going to have fun.

Here's my question though. Why not have this same hunt, the weekend AFTER the 10 day firearms hunting season is over? Our firearms season will end this year on Tuesday, November 22. There will still be plenty of deer out and about because the rut will be ending and it is even doe season for firearms hunters.

Here are some valid arguments against having the hunt the weekend before firearms season starts:

1. More wounded bucks/does because some (not all) youngsters cannot shoot as well as adults
2. More large bucks are taken by youth hunters when many times it's the adults who put in the time, money and hard work to get the deer to come to their property. (in my case, my neighbor has about 10 kids he lets hunt)
3. There are MANY unethical cases where dad gets his child's tags and goes rifle hunting on his own.
4. Youth typically do not have good scent control so therefore your hunting ground could get contaminated
5. AND THIS IS THE MOST VALID POINT: When a kid hunting for his first time gets a buck that scores 160 they are going to expect that EVERY time they hunt. I'm not saying it isn't cool for a kid to get a buck that big, but comon' that doesn't happen every season to every person.


These are just my thoughts guys. Like I said, I'm not against having this, but why not have it during the doe season AFTER regular firearms? I completely agree with having a special time set apart for JUST youth. But if it's going to happen the weekend before the main firearms season.. there needs to be better regulations in place as well as penalties for parents who abuse this weekend. You know something is up when I open up my newspaper the Monday after the youth season and there are over 20 pics of kids holding up MONSTER bucks that they "supposedly" shot. :shocking:


Thoughts? Concerns? and no I'm not ebinezer scrooge.

 

[gfdeputy2]

Tator I can not speak on behalf of your state but here goes my feeling for New Hampshire & my thoughts about your 5 arguements
1st off NH's youth season is the weekend before any of the firearm seasons this year it was Oct 22 & 23 well before the rut I like this not as easy to hunt as the rut but the kids get a chance before the deer are pushed around by 1,000's of hunters in the woods & have to be pretty much within arms reach of a licensed hunter over the age of 18

1. More wounded bucks/does because some (not all) youngsters cannot shoot as well as adults.
This is the parents fault my daughter shoots all summer long & can put 5 rounds easily into a 2" circle @ 100yards because she takes it as seriously as I do

2. More large bucks are taken by youth hunters when many times it's the adults who put in the time, money and hard work to get the deer to come to their property. (in my case, my neighbor has about 10 kids he lets hunt)
don't have a good answer for this other then again my daughter is with me 80-90% of my scouting time

3. There are MANY unethical cases where dad gets his child's tags and goes rifle hunting on his own.
agree but in NH I do know many of kids that have been drilled by F&G ayaw from their parent to see who actually shot the animal some have given up their parent

4. Youth typically do not have good scent control so therefore your hunting ground could get contaminated
don't agree well at least mine does

5. AND THIS IS THE MOST VALID POINT: When a kid hunting for his first time gets a buck that scores 160 they are going to expect that EVERY time they hunt. I'm not saying it isn't cool for a kid to get a buck that big, but comon' that doesn't happen every season to every person.
Mine still waiting on her first one LOL

Tator am I wrong it sounds like youth can hunt on their own there?

 

[flexj]

The youth hunt here is in october. I think this year was right in the middle of the month (14th & 15th) or something like that. It was the weekend before muzzleloader opened. I like it there. A week before rifle season would bother me a little too I think for some of the same reasons you pointed out.

 

[BruceBruce1959]

I see Tators points too, here in Vt. the youth weekend is always the weekend before our Rifle season opener and it really isnt fair to the veteran hunters who put in years and years of scouting efforts only to have the youth hunters go in a lay the smackdown on all the veterans hard work..
The reason all these states have youth hunts is to offer opportunity to all ages but I believe the youth hunters should be the ones taking up the tail end of the hunting seasons not the veteran hunters. that's my .02

 

[tator]

Iit really isnt fair to the veteran hunters who put in years and years of scouting efforts only to have the youth hunters go in a lay the smackdown on all the veterans hard work..

Exactly! My main argument is the timing of this hunt. All the other stuff was just part of my argument. If they want to do this in late October, that would be perfect. Now, all that said... will I be out with my boy when he's old enough on that weekend before firearm season, well sure. I'm not opposing the hunt itself, just the timing of it.

GFD.. no they have to hunt with someone who is hunter safety certified and must be 18 y/o. Our "youth" age range stops at 15 years old.

Case and point, yes I want the kids to get big bucks, but we need to keep it realistic for them. They're not ALWAYS going to be hunting during PRIMETIME their whole lives. In Missouri, November 5 and 6 is PRIMETIME.

btw--- kids are just as excited shooting their first doe as they are shooting a 12 pointer.

 

[gfdeputy2]

Tator I understand your points & agree & I get just as excited shooting a doe as I do shooting a 12 pointer corse I have never shot a 12 so I don't know what that feels like
Like I said I am happy the way NH does it Mid/Late Oct & at least my area there are not a lot of youth hunters & I think the weather is better for the youth then late Dec. here I guess I look at it a different way I feel the people who take time to take a kid hunting usually puts a lot of time in the woods more so then a lot of so called hunters who pull the rifle out the night before to shoot & never step foot in the woods till opening day
& at least here I hear way more adult hunters wounding deer then the youth I have never been to MO so I cant say I would feel the same as I do here I can only bring the points out the way I see them here
QDMA wanted NH to put antler restrictions here in NH & from what I hear was pushing to have a buck only season they also wanted the youth to follow the same reg's so now that WOULD force the kids to possibly shoot bigger bucks
I guess there are positives & negatives to all situations so Tator I honestly do not know what to tell ya I have now confused myself LOL

 

[on_the_fly]

here in ky youth is always in Oct and is always the week before black powder weekend then there is usualy two to three weeks till the Nov Gun season. so here the youth has no efect on the regular gun season. the youth (15 and under) still have to fallow the regular state bag and equipment laws as an adult would.
as far as poor shot.. my son has been on me for the pas 3 years to let him gun hunt and i would not let him go because he could not shoot any kind of a group at fifty yards, and i told him until he could he wasnt going because of just that fact. i did not want him shooting a deer and fataly wonding it with a gut shot or something and use never finding it, i try to instill the ( you dont kill unless you intend on eating it, and you dont pull unless you know your going to kill it) so for poor shots thats all on the people that are taking these kids that are not ready and mostly for the wrong reasons like you said for them to shoot and fill a tag to the kid.
this year my son is ready and we missed youth weekend because of company being here so i told him this weekend is the regular gun opener here and its all him this weekend, see if he cant get his first,

 

[gfdeputy2]

Fly I agree 100% that is what I was trying to point out it comes down to the responsable adult to make sure the youth is prepared In no way am I arguing your points Tator I just like the way NH does it like KY it is early season just before Muzzleloading season which we do not have a lot that hunt that season here in my area so they get over two weeks before the deer start getting pressured but I may be biased as I do have 1 kid that loves to hunt & does I guess if I didn't it could be a different story

 

[tator]

I completely agree with everyone on here when it comes to your own kids or kids you know who are being taken by buddies and friends. But that's not always the case around here. Many times kids are going hunting with a dad that's never been. Kids are going hunting when they've never even shot a rifle. That's what worries me about wounding the deer... plus that's not the main point of my argument. The main point is the timing of it.

BTW-- Missouri has an antler restriction for MOST of the state that says you cannot take a buck unless it has 4 points on one side OR had spikes less than 3 inches long. Well during youth season, THIS restriction is lifted... That angers me as well. It's like we're trying to do two things at once but they are both canceling themselves out.

 

[gfdeputy2]

Tator I would be interested to know what the % of kills are for youth compared to the rest of the hunting season trust me I understand where you are coming from
I will give you NH 2010 results

SEASON ​

ARCHERY 1984
YOUTH 392 less then 1/2 of this # were bucks
MUZZL. 2219
FIREARM 5164​

TOTAL 9759

Youth is 4% of the deer kill
so IN NH this is really why it doesn't bother me all that much

What I could find Mo Youth kill is 5% I do not know how many of them were buck
Holy crap 299,081 total kill for MO

 

[BruceBruce1959]

just an FYI
Vermont's 2009 Report
Youth -1,706 which indicates 11% of the total Harvest BUT
Vermont does not break down the Rifle, Archery or Muzzleloader harvests by age groups which many are Youth hunters also.



Doe..........Buck.......Youth...Youth....Rifle.....Muzz.....Muzz.
Archery.....Archery....Doe.....Buck.....Buck.....Doe......Buck
2,253........650.........1,124....582.....6,663.....3,674....535

 

[Bone Collector]

During the past deer season 219,797 deer were reported killed by hunters in Virginia. This total included 95,543 antlered bucks, 19,191 button bucks, and 105,063 does (47.8%). The fall 2010 deer kill total was 15% lower than the 259,147 deer reported killed last year. It is 3% lower than the last 10 year average of 227,430.
Couldn't find last years youth total, but the year before the initial youth day deer kill total was 1838, but couldn't find the buck/doe breakdown.