[rdrader2002]

Okay guys. I have a question about a popular caliber - .35 caliber in fact.

I know of .35 Whelen, which is a popular round for lever action.

I also know of .35 Remington which was (is?) popular in Remington's older semi-autos. (Bonnie and Clyde killed by one?)

What's the difference between them, if there is one???

I figured that this would be about the best place to go ask. :thumbup:

 

[WisconsinDeer]

.35 Whelen is a wildcat round. It's a 30-06 case necked up to .35 cal. .35 Remington is a round all it's own. 35 Rem is still chambered in lever actions today, where the .35 Whelen I dont think ever was chambered in a lever action.

 

[Karl.Luhr]

different cartridges same bore big differences

When you compare cartridges there are two things to consider. First is bore size or diameter. In the case of 35 Remington and 35 Whelen they are both .308 bore diameter. The next is what type of case is it. The 35 Remington was designed for use in early Semi-auto rifles. It is a compact case that used a large bore diameter to make it more effective as a hunting cartridge. I beleave it doesn't load a very heavy bullet ~150gr due to limits in the case capacity. The 30-06 is the parent of the 35 Whalen. Some people feel that its larger bore size over the 30-06 firing a heavier bullet makes the 35 whalen more effective on large Elk etc. Neither of these two 35s are as popular as many that will provide the same performance.

Karl

 

[turner]

The .35 Rem is well over 100 years old now and originally was chambered in a semi-auto (thus the lack of a true rim) The .35 Whelen dates to the '20s as a wildcat and from about 1987 or so as a SAMMI factory cartridge. It was first factory chambered in a Remington M700 Classic (I bought one back in the late '80s) It has a pretty devoted following from those who have used it. I've personally owned four different rifles chambered in .35 Whelen (only one in .35Rem)

The Whelen has since been chambered in the Ruger 77 and Remington pumps and semi-autos like the 760, 7400 and newer 750 models and various single shots such as the Ruger #1, T/C Encore and H&R (NEF) single shot. The .35W has never been factory chambered in any lever action rifle. It's cousin, the .358 Winchester(based on .308 Win) gives about 90% of .35W performance and has been chambered in at least three different lever rifles, M99, M88 and Browning BLR.

The bore diameter is 358 for both (not .308) and the performance difference is significant, in favor of the .35W and on the order of 600 FPS with 200gr bullets and factory ammo in both. The .35R is a very fine short to medium range round (out to 200 yards) for deer and black bear (it, of course will kill larger game much closer) and the .35W would suffice for any N.A. game shooting bullets as heavy as 310 gr and giving near .338 WM performance with a .358 diameter vs a .338.

 

[Karl.Luhr]

Another note the the 35 Remington cartridge

I remember reading that many owners say it is more effective than the 30-30 Winchester on Deer. That is saying alot more Deer have probibly been killed by the 30-30 than all others. Sorry about the bore diameter mistake I had 30 cal .308 on the brain when I typed the reply. Another thing to consider unless you load the new Hornady flextip (LE) bullets a 35 Rem needs the very rounded/almost flat tip bullets that lose velocity quickly.

Karl

 

[rdrader2002]

Okay, okay! I get the point, .35 Whelen was never designed for lever action.

Could have sworn that it was! Guess that's what I get for swearing.

Looked up a couple of different rifle manufacturers and confirmed everything y'all said about .35 Whelen in Remington semi-auto's (and more) and that .35 Remington for Marlin 336 lever action.

And yup, was certainly right about one thing -- this WAS the right place to ask.

 

[BruceBruce1959]

I think Bonnie and Clyde were killed by .45 cal. Thompson submachine guns commonly known as "Tommy Guns".

 

[turner]

I think Bonnie and Clyde were killed by .45 cal. Thompson submachine guns commonly known as "Tommy Guns".

Could be... I think there were a number of different weapons used in the ambush as well as found in the bullet riddled car afterwards. Without googling it, I'm pretty sure B & C had at least two full auto Browning BARS (yes, military versions) with them. And if memory serves me, the "posse" carried some of them as well....

 

[turner]

Okay, okay! I get the point, .35 Whelen was never designed for lever action.

Could have sworn that it was! Guess that's what I get for swearing.

Looked up a couple of different rifle manufacturers and confirmed everything y'all said about .35 Whelen in Remington semi-auto's (and more) and that .35 Remington for Marlin 336 lever action.

And yup, was certainly right about one thing -- this WAS the right place to ask.

Although the .35W has never been factory offered in lever form, Browning's BLR platform could easily be chambered in it, since the 30/06 already is (parent case). Until then, someone wanting performance very close to what a BLR/.35W would provide can get themselves a BLR/.358 and with some aftermarket loads (200gr TSX @ 2680 FPS or 225gr TSX @ 2500 FPS) it will match the performance of a Whelen shooting Remington's factory 200gr load & Federal's 225gr. :boxing:

 

[rdrader2002]

Nope!

I think Bonnie and Clyde were killed by .45 cal. Thompson submachine guns commonly known as "Tommy Guns".

posse photo

Deputy Prentiss Oakley and Frank Hamer both used Remington Model 8's in .35 Remington. :boxing:

 

[BruceBruce1959]

posse photo

Deputy Prentiss Oakley and Frank Hamer both used Remington Model 8's in .35 Remington. :boxing:

That's interesting to find out, I always thought credit went to the Tommy Guns for their demise. cool link too.. :thumbup:

 

[turner]

posse photo

Deputy Prentiss Oakley and Frank Hamer both used Remington Model 8's in .35 Remington. :boxing:

I saw the three BARs taken from the death car and further down, one of the posse holding another one in a 1934 photo re-enactment. Sounds like it was quite the (one-sided) firefight! :surprised:

 

[rdrader2002]

"I saw the three BARs taken from the death car and further down, one of the posse holding another one in a 1934 photo re-enactment. Sounds like it was quite the (one-sided) firefight! "

In fact, it was (very one-sided)! Since Bonnie & Clyde didn't know about the ambush, they were caught literally empty handed. Don't blame the lawmen for not wanting to be polite and ask the two to come out with their hands up. Don't blame them at all. Even with the semi-auto Remington Model 8's, they (lawmen) wouldn't have stood a chance against the BAR's. What's the "A" for in BAR? Automatic?

From the pictures, notice the concentrated shots on the passenger windshield and more through the driver's door. Neither of them stood much of a chance, but given their past history I don't blame the lawmen one bit for doing what they did.

Have a Model 81 ('newer' sibling of Model 8) in .300 Savage and I've seen what one round does to a deer. Can only imagine what a .35 Remington would do even after punching through a car door.

Glad I could shed a little light on some rifle history.

RR

 

[Karl.Luhr]

Just a note from a Guns and Ammo article

I remember a Guns and Ammo article about the Texas Rangers, and they were having a meeting that ended early because a local distributor had gotten a batch of Remington semi-autos in. The Capt of the Rangers bought two one in 35 Rem and one in 25 Rem. Both of these were later used on the ambush that ended Bonnie and Clydes career. It also touched on the fact that the battle was short and very one sided.

Karl