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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My Christmas gift this year from my family is a riffle. I have already decided on the rifle I am going to get. It is a Rossi Wizard. This is similar to a Thompson Center as it is a break action that you can buy different barrels for. I'm a sucker for single shots. Now I just need to decide on the calibers. I want a caliber for shooting deer under 75 yards as that is what 90% of my hunting is. Then I also want a long range caliber for Deer and Black bear. For the short range I am torn between the 45-70, 357 magnum and the .243. I like the .357 and .243 because they are lower energy, very common ammo and I already have guns in those calibers. However I find the 45-70 is just plain cool. For long range I am torn between the .270 and 30-06. I like the .270 better but the 30-06 is more common ammo.

 

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I can imagine the recoil will be a bit stout. I don't know the cost involved but is there anyway to look at used rifles in the same price range that would fit your needs? I'd stay away from the 357 and the 243 if you are going after any bears.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I hadn't given much thought about the recoil of the 45-70. It probably would be stout. I wouldn't use the smaller calibers for bear, just whitetail deer. The reason that I want a lower energy round is that my whitetail hunting is from a stand and it is heavily treed so my shots are always close. I just don't see the need to use such a powerful round at less then 75 yards. So far I have used a toned down muzzle loader, a shot gun and a .243. My bear hunting though is on public land and I am shooting 200 to 300 yards. So I have decided to get two separate barrels. I just haven't decided on the calibers.
 

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for short range 100yds or less for deer or bear a 30-30 barrel would work great. IMO for the longer ranges a 270 barrel would be nice and will work for deer and bear
 

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considering your selection of barrels and the game you mentioned, I am with Hunting Man 100% on what to stay away from. I would select the .270 to cover everything and then some.
 

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if 90% of your hunting is under 75 yards then I would probably go for a .30-30 caliber especially if you'll be filling bear tags as well.
Good Luck
 

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My Christmas gift this year from my family is a riffle. I have already decided on the rifle I am going to get. It is a Rossi Wizard. This is similar to a Thompson Center as it is a break action that you can buy different barrels for. I'm a sucker for single shots. Now I just need to decide on the calibers. I want a caliber for shooting deer under 75 yards as that is what 90% of my hunting is. Then I also want a long range caliber for Deer and Black bear. For the short range I am torn between the 45-70, 357 magnum and the .243. I like the .357 and .243 because they are lower energy, very common ammo and I already have guns in those calibers. However I find the 45-70 is just plain cool. For long range I am torn between the .270 and 30-06. I like the .270 better but the 30-06 is more common ammo.


There is no comparison between the .357 mag, .243 & 45-70. Fo close cover clout, there is no substitution for frontal area. Simply pick up a .243 cartridge, a .357 cartridge & a 45-70 cartridge all at once in your hand and then ask your self which you'd rather have when you track the bear that ran off after the shot and then look in a mirror. You'll have your answer quick enough. I own two 45-70s, 2 .450s and a slew of other mediums too. They are not the monsters most make them out to be. My last buck I took two weeks ago was with a .450 Marlin shooting 350gr @ 2150 FPS. Bang/Flop.

At the ranges you are talking for the short-range barrel, standard factory ammo in 405gr @ 1300 FPS or 300gr @ 1800 FPS will do a bang-up job for you with minimal recoil. If you want more horsepower from the 45-70, get some loads with a 400gr @ 1800 FPS if you want ($25/box). It will recoil stoutly, however. I shoot a 325gr bullet at 2150 FPS in my Ruger #1 45-70 and it's not bad at all (that's the LeverEvolution ammo) and a 400gr @ 1800 FPS in my Marlin 45-70.

I'd think the 45-70 to be an absolutely great choice for you and that rifle for your short range desires. As for a long-range cartridge for deer & bear, between the .270 & '06, I'd choose the larger frontal area and heavier bullets of the '06 for bear, again hands down. The ammo choices and availability for either the .270 or '06 are numerous and no problem finding either anywhere they sell ammo.

Good luck and enjoy that nice new rifle when you get it!! :thumbup:
 

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Having one rifle presents some problems when multiple game will be pursued at varing distances. After reading all the input, I would be leaning for a 270 win. The 270 will take down everything on your list with great results and as stated ammo is everywhere. Good luck in shopping and future hunting!
 

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Sounds like you need to start reloading your own....

I would recommend that you start reloading your own rifle ammo after buying your rifle in either 270 or 30-06. One of the great beauties of reloading is that you can take a powerful cartridge and download it into something totally different. The light loads in say 30-06 are basically a 30-30 ballistically. When you need power for say Black Bear you have it with full power loads. Again either the 270 or 30-06 can take Black Bears after you have selected the correct bullet for the animal. I find the reloading side in my gunroom as much fun as the shooting side at the range. It is still fun at -10 degrees in Jan/Feb.

Karl
 

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I have kill all the bear I have taken with a 30-06 and 7mm-08. These have been one shot kills and a 400 pound bear dropped by my 7mm-08 Custom Sako Shilen barrel with a 140gr Partition at 45 yards. You don't need a cannon like a 45/70 especially in the rifle you are talking about buying (which will really recoil more than you probably imagine), to kill a black bear. I in fact they die fairly easy. I have killed them with a 140gr Accubond in a 7mm-08.
Well, if memory serves me... you were here a few months ago talking big about the .358 Win. I'm also VERY familiar with the .358 and have actually taken game with it. Have You? I also will say, unequivocally, that a stoutly loaded .358 Win will recoil at least as much as a 45-70 such as I've mentioned. I've shot both, A LOT!

Have you ever shot a 45-70? A .450? A 9.3x62? Have you ever even owned one? I've killed big game with well over 20 different chamberings. You?... This post edited here to tone down the post, trying to prevent it's sounding like a rant... Giving an opinion is fine, Mr. CirucitRider, but boldly claiming against someone else's is cause for challenge. Well?

Your .358 is now gone and your 7/08 is NOW the bomb?? :yawn:
 

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real numbers

Here are the REAL numbers:

30/06 with 180gr bullet @ 2700 FPS = 18.5 lbs of recoil

.358 Win with 200gr bullet @ 2490 (mild factory loading) = 19.7 lbs of recoil

.358 Win with 200gr bullet @ 2675 (hot Doubletap load) = 22 lbs of recoil

45-70 with 300gr bullet @ 1800 (load I mentioned) = 21.5 lbs of recoil

45-70 with 405gr bullet @ 1330 (load I mentioned) = 18 lbs of recoil

45-70 with 350gr bullet @ 1900 = 32.2 lbs of recoil (similar to a load I said would recoil "stoutly")

These numbers pulled from the chart below. All are in similar rifles; that is rifles all weighing 8.5 pounds. The 45-70, with standard factory 405gr loads does not recoil any stiffer than a standard 30/06 180gr load. It has less felt recoil in 405gr form than a .358 factory load and far less than any hot .358 handloaded loads.

Sir, my argument stands as originally stated. These numbers completely backing my original statements. It's falsehoods as you have perpetrated that keep folks from using or trying a grand old cartridge, the 45-70. Perhaps you should re-read my original posting.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/subscribers/tables_charts_lists_page/recoil_table_exp.htm
 

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Chuck hawks chart is not using the velocities I used which came from my chronographed loads. Your point about the 358win and the 45/70 on recoil is still wrong. Once again, a black bear is not hard to kill, and a 45/70 is really to much for the rifle he has in mind unless he likes being punished and if he shoots a Garret load in that single action he won't forget the recoil. I still do not agree with your point in your posts at all. So lets agree to disagree, and as far as I am concerned this discussion has ended. Have a great day and good hunting season. :thumbup:
Here are the lines right out of the recoil table, these are factory loads:

cartridge//rifle weight//recoil//recoil velocity

.30-06 Spfd. (180 at 2700)//8.5//18.5//11.8

358 Win. (200 at 2490)8.5//19.7//12.2

.45-70 (405 at 1330)8.5//18.0//11.7
 

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I think when all is said and done, giving advise should be based more on the consumer needs than our personal likes and dislikes. The point I'm trying to make: I am one who truly enjoys the old stuff, those rifle/calibers that have fallen by the wayside but fully capable of taking anything out there, however, If you really want to give a new person advise that will fit their immediate needs in the best way, then I think we have to separate our pet rifles and vintage caliber combo's and instead forward information that will give the questioning party revelant information that will be used to purchase a firearm that most closely matches their needs. While the 45-70 and 358 are great they do carry that old time flavor and are falling off the radar for sales. Understand these are two that I would consider for myself however, never would I try to sell a new/youth buyer to either one of these. This is the reason for my 270 win suggestion as it is still highly popular, ammo is still affordable, can be found in any store, and will take just about all game, excluding African big game and America's big bears. So I suspose I've hurt some feelings here, slow down and re-read my post and reason for steering him to the 270 win. I can think of several others that would fit but he gave us a small list to discuss and I think the 270 gives him the most caliber for his needs with the rifle he is purchasing. The 270 win is not my favorite bullet, but you can't argue it's popularity and history. My advise/opinion for what it's worth????:confused:
 

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I was wondering if it was time for a Jello duel...

Reading the posts flying back and forth I was very happy that you guys were not in the same State. You two both have forgot more than I will ever know about this shooting/hunting stuff. Just remember we are on the same side and I know that either of you would help drag that big monster Buck out of the woods if the other one shot it. If you guys still need to settle it I recommend that you drive up to Minnesota. I will make up a big batch of Jello and you can settle this dispute at high noon range 10 feet.
I would like to meet you both anyway......

Karl
 

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Those are not the only factory loads especially for the 45/70

Buffalo bore, Garrett, and other specialty companies for the 45/70, and Double Tap ammo for the the 358Win. There is so much you don't know and miss in your assumptions and biased data to hopefully fit your conclusions. How many black bear have you killed and have you ever killed a grizz with an 06? Look, lets please let this go, I refuse to continue and this is my last post on this tread. If you want the last word you can have it.
Here's exactly what I know Jack. You lie and change numbers to meet your wants. You're a fake, a liar and an piece of ****. I used, as I said from the first post, numbers from well known places. You?? You used numbers from your, Well, I have no idea where they came from. Your dreams? your wants? Something to make you seem smart?? Well, look at the facts and freakin' grow up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well thank you all for your opinions and thoughts. I didn't mean for this to become what it has, but there has been some helpful input from everyone.

I think that I will go with the .270 for now. It was my first choice for long range and bear. If it is a common enough round that I won't have trouble finding the ammo that I want, then I feel it would be the best choice for me. The reason that I questioned it in the first place is that my friend has used a .270 for years that his dad gave him as a gift. He expressed to me that he would rather have a 30-06 due to the greater options of rounds but he didn't want to hurt his dad's feelings.

For short range, I will just hold off for now and give it some more thought. I can always buy the second barrel later. If I don't decide before next season, I will just keep borrowing my son's .243. It would be nice for us both to have our own rifle though. I still feel that a .270 is overkill for a whitetail at 50-75 yards since the .243 has been doing such a good job. I would simply prefer a larger diameter bullet. I really like how my .50 caliber muzzle loader performed with 90 grains of black powder at that range. I was looking for something with similar performance and characteristics out of a cartridge (big hole, slow speed).

Again thank you all and I will post a picture of it after it is in my possession.

DVW
 

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HM great posts
DVM the .270 is a great choice for the first barrel you may find you won't need a second barrel depending on what you decide to hunt
it is true there are more choices in the .30-06 because it just took a lot to get it right reason why the .270 has less
YES IM ONLY KIDDING geeze do not want to start another war
commonly you can find 130gr & 150 gr in the .270 I use the 130gr in my .270 mostly
by the way do they still make a .45-70 or the .358 I thought they went out before HM's time
MAN again I could not help myself
 
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