[ch929]

help----can 50 caliber pellets be used in a 45 caliber in-line rifle ??????
the 50's slide down the 45's barrel and i would think vo;ume is volume,but does anyone out there know for sure that this will work---i have never seen 45 caliber pellets.--reason for question:have always used loose powder in my flintlock but due to all the rain during the last couple of seasons,i will be using a 45 caliber inline a picked up at an estate auction for $40.00---it is a cva mag bolt
any help will be appreciated---thanks

 

[wmi]

Grains are grains.

 

[ronn]

50 grains is 50 grains loose, pellet, or patty.

 

[buckfever]

like Ronn said 50 is 50. as long as they slide down the barrell easy enough and you dont have to pack them to get them in. You would not want to possibly crush them at times which could throw off where your bullet is normally seated. You should be able to find 45 cal pellets though. I accidently picked a box of them up one time and had to take them back to exchange them for the 50's.

 

[Berk]

The 50 grain pelets will work in your 45 but I dont think a 50 grain pelet is the same as 50 grains of loose powder. Im no expert but I think that is the way it is.

 

[ronn]

which weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of lead? grains is a measurement of weight.

 

[Berk]

I dont think Im explaining this corectly but doesnt the loose powder burn hotter than pelets. If you can put three 777 pelets in a gun but you should only put around 120 of the loose stuff. Does this make sense?

 

[Hunting Man]

Berk, I will be watching the responces on this one. I know gr for gr all else being equal, pellets vs loose powder should perform the same (that's the selling point for pellets) and being easier to load. Here's the kicker for me: I get dramically more felt recoil from 100 gr of 2F black powder vs 2- 50 gr pellets, this in the same rifle. I wish I had a cronograph to check fps on each load. I believe loose powder gives greater performance (and chamber pressure) over pellets. If this isn't the case, I would think bullet makers would just make 30-06, 270, ect, with a solid powder propellent inside the case. My son could shoot his Knight using 2 -50 gr pellets all day. Switching to 100 gr pyrodex or black powder and he didn't want to shoot anymore. Somewhere the volume vs grains discussion will arrive. Is two formed 50 grains (by weight) equal to 100 grs of loose powder using a vloume measurement that says 100 grs equivilent. As i said, I really will be interested in the responces. Ronn, your smokeless powder Savage is not included in this thread, wouldn't be fair comparison, that thing is in a class all by itself.

 

[wmi]

It is a darn good question that I will have to research to answer correctly. I do know exactly who to ask though. Will let you know what answer I get.

 

[ronn]

My understanding is there is a huge difference between black powder and pyrodex or 777 in the loose form. Where as I don't think they make a black powder pellets black powder is by itself. it may also have something to do with the combustion space available. you can compress a loose powder and pellets not so much. I think its the same as the difference in smokeless, ball or extruded powders. Basically I think it all comes down to burn rate, combustion chamber volume, and weight of projectile. I think somewhere on the can of pyrodex it said what to use if you were using X number of grs of black powder. probably of no help huh?

 

[Hunting Man]

pyrodex and true blackpowder are used volume for volume. 90 gr is 90gr measured volume not weighed on a scale. industry has made these nice measured scales that they say equals so many weighted grains. We all use them. So why the big difference in felt recoil between pellets and loose powder? That is the question. I use the same load for pyrodex for the in-line as I do black powder for the flintlock 100 grs. If I use 2 -50 gr pellets it feels like a 50% reduction on recoil. Don't know the answer on this one!

 

[ronn]

I've only used FFF or smokeless. It must come down to the volume of combustion chamber. Does 2 pellets take up more space than 100 gr loose? When you marked your ram rod with the loose is it the same mark as with pellets? Same burn in a tighter space may be the answers. The other thing that could give that feeling is rate of burn. Do the pellets take longer to burn completely as apposed to loose? Its a good question. huh?

 

[Hunting Man]

Now I wish that I had saved some pellets and could do some measuring, a cronograph would give some of the answers.

 

[Berk]

I got this from another site.
There is a bit of difference between the pellets and loose powder. Because of the added inert ingredients to form the pellet shape and hold the pellet together, it addes some mass to the overall volumetric charge, which is controlled by purchasing an equivalent powder charge in pellet form.

Loose powder doesn't necessarily have these ingredients, and so have less volumetric mass, which will cause a lower volumetric measurement from larger individual particles (what is used to measure black powder, not a physical weight), so in essense a 2F loose 120gr charge is the equivalent to 150gr volumetric charge in pellet form. As you switch to finer grades of blackpowder (3F, 4F) you are getting more a more dense charge for the volume equivalent, so you'd use less 3F than 2F, and even less 4F over 3F!

FFF t7 is in smaller granules. as a result, more of it fits in a given volume of space. When i set my volumetric measure to 90 g., i get more weight of t7 powder if i fill it up w/ FFF t7, than I would if I filled it up w/ FF t7. So the same volume t7 FFF will give you higher velocity than the same volume t7 FF because there is more powder and less air space w/ FFF. theoretically ....

I wont post the other site unless I get the OK.

 

[ronn]

That sound logical to me. Now that you mention it there was a weight difference in black and t7 when measured out in volume. So if I read that right, its a bigger volume combustion chamber with pellets because of the inert junk in the pellets. Correct?

 

[Berk]

Beats me I just know how to copy and paste:whistling:

 

[ronn]

hahahahaha

 

[buckfever]

Hey Berk feel free to post that other site. It dont bother me a bit if it helps out our hunters on here. Ya'll are in the middle of a discussion. Any helpful links from you is fine. I just hate the spammers and you adding a link to help a legit discussion is far from spam in my book. Thanks for being considerate to the site though.

 

[Berk]

The site is called Modern Muzzeloader but you have to sign up to see the forums. Alot of info though.

 

[Hunting Man]

I don't have any pellets left, but i would think that loose powder in 100 grains would actually take up a larger combustion volume space vs two 50 grain compacted pellets. Someone just needs to stack two pellets and create a cylinder equal in diameter to the pellets and pour in 100 grains of powder and compare. My guess is loose powder is faster burning, creates more instant pressure than two pellets, which would be slower, longer control burning with less pressure. This may account for the greater felt recoil with loose powder. We still need an answer to the FPS difference in bullet velocity between loose powder and pellets. If this experiment ends up showing that two 50gr pellets are not the equivilent to 100 grs of loose powder as advertised by the pellet manufactures, maybe we have something to look at. My guess that this has all been worked out we just need the info.