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tree stand angles

39543 Views 79 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  ronn, 
deputy dog
if you are 20' up in a stand with a bow what should you're shot placement be, higher or lower? my inlaws and i were discussing this and wanted your input. thanks in advance!
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M
I agree with Buckshot and Bruce on this one. I really dug into this last year. 20' up a tree and shooting at a target 20 yards out translated to 3 more yards difference from ground level. This was not enough of a difference to cause a need for me to adjust my shot. I think a lot of it has to do with how fast your bow is too. Like mentioned above, practice from a stand and at a target is the only way to know for sure.

I use my range finder for marking spots before the deer come through. There is enough to do while the deer is there so I try to eliminate all aditional steps before the shot opportunity presents itself.

It is very important to remember if the shot is very steep you need to make sure you get both lungs. Visualize the arrow passing through the chest cavity to ensure a double lung hit.
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M
I agree with Bruce on this. I don't worry about the distance from the base of the tree cause I'm 20 feet up! It is still a straight line measured in feet and inches, right?:wallbash: LOL
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BruceBruce1959
ronn said:
i would shoot that deer using my 13 pin both from the ground and from the tree. even though the range finder says 15 yards while in the tree. with the compensating range finders it would say its 15 yards but shoot as if it was 13 while in the tree.
Click to expand...
Is that a New Hampshire hunters method because it sure doesn't fit in with many BowHunters methods.
Your answer simply makes no sense at all, especially if you have a 13 yard pin AND a 15 yd pin to use.
BUT ronn either way, I will tell you this, You will hit and kill that Deer because it's only a 13 to 15 yard shot
but if that deer were at greater distances, your method just doesn't work out.
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H
For more information on this subject check out youtube.com Michael Waddell's comercial with a rangefinder and bow shots. Michael shows a target at 32 yds with his new compensating rangefinder but shoots it like a 25 yd shot. I'm will admit I'm getting confused some on this. I sight in my bow from the ground at known distances then set my pins. Climbing into a 16" ladder stand changes the shot angle/distance into the vitals slightly which requires a mental adjustment for arrow placement. There's no question that the higher you go the more drastic the shot angle becomes and the need to hold lower on the body or you will shoot over it. How these adjustments are made is the subject of ther debate. I will look and learn!
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BruceBruce1959
it's simple to understand really. first off Michael Wadell gets paid big money to SELL gadgets.
In his commercial he says to shoot a 32 yard deer he uses his 25 yard pin. WOW THAT's Amazing,,,,
what he's REALLY saying is he uses his 30 yard pin aimed slightly high.
NOW can you imagine a 30 yard pin slighlty elevated to hit a 32 yard target?
because by raising the 30 yard pin it pulls that 25 yard pin UP for a perfect shot
BUT we don't zero in for 15, 25, 35, 45 yards
WE have always been taught to use 10, 20, 30 and 40 yard pins.
Does this makes more sense?
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G
I'd bet the house that there is a difference. that deal hm is talking about is more proof and what he said is correct. its the same deal as a rifle just more exaggerated because of the arch, slower speeds and they don't shoot as flat. its called "angle of departure" i've got computer programs that will work out the difference for you and there are mathematical equations that prove it to be true. you are right at 15 yards its not going to show that much difference BUT it is different. if you get a range finder with the arc system, thats what busnell calls it, or whatever the manufacture calls the system, you will see that it is true. you can argue with me but you can't argue with physics. but hey if your system works for you go with it. i got an idea lets pose the question to mathews or PSE, the real best bow ever grin, and see what they say. ralph and vicky, lee and tiff, mike waddel, the nudge, david blanton, manufactures like bushnell and leupold, all say the same thing i'm saying. are they all wrong as well? again you shoot your way, and a honest good luck to you, and the rest of the bow shooters world will shoot theirs.
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G
i don't know how your bow is set but my 20 pin is on top. so what mike is saying 30 pin low to make 25. just the opposite of what you are saying.
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G
oh and bruce no offence meant or ill will from here just a good discussion/debate. the best discussion are if there are differing opinions. be kinda sad talk if everyone agreed all the time, heh?
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Buckshot
I love this debate. In Bruce's example assuming you had a 13 yard pin and a 15 yard pin you would shoot the 13 yard pin.

The actual distance does not matter. It is the distance from the base of the tree to the deer that matters. Not the hunter 15 feet up the tree to the deer. The force of gravity will only effect the arrow for 13 yards.

The reason is in the physics of gravity. Only the distance on a level bubble will determine how much an arrow drops from the force of gravity. that is why people say you have to aim low on a shot from 20 feet up a tree.

The range finders that compensate for the hieght is compensating the difference in the distance on the diagonal line and the distance on the horizontal line.
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Southern Man
I hate to get technical but....... The arrow drop, shooting from an elevated position at a downward angle, wouldn't be as much as from a true level position. It's physics. Gravity doesn't have the same effect when shooting downward. The steeper the shot gets, the less drop you'll have over the same distance, thus you shoot high. The reverse is true shooting at an upward angle. Has anyone ever tried shooting straight down? Put a target at a very steep angle under you and see what kind of groups you get. It will suprise you. An arrow shot using a 20 yard pin at a target 20 yards away from an elevated position will hit differently than an arrow shot using a 20 yard pin at a target 20 yards away on level ground.
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BruceBruce1959
none taken, it's just a debate, it's no big deal. I have confidence you'll get your deer . I just think what we have here is a conflict of understanding. LOL
I know you understand the bowhunting concept from ground and tree but I think you've allowed commercial gadgetry to cloud your common sense a bit.
whether it's a 13 or 15 yd pin, one is raised or the other is lowered to hit the target Either way both pins will work if you know the distance.
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Southern Man
Yea I agree Ron. I mean no offence Bruce, none at all...
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Buckshot
Hunting Man said:
For more information on this subject check out youtube.com Michael Waddell's comercial with a rangefinder and bow shots. Michael shows a target at 32 yds with his new compensating rangefinder but shoots it like a 25 yd shot. I'm will admit I'm getting confused some on this. I sight in my bow from the ground at known distances then set my pins. Climbing into a 16" ladder stand changes the shot angle/distance into the vitals slightly which requires a mental adjustment for arrow placement. There's no question that the higher you go the more drastic the shot angle becomes and the need to hold lower on the body or you will shoot over it. How these adjustments are made is the subject of ther debate. I will look and learn!
Click to expand...

If you messure your distance from the base of the tree there is no adjustment to make.
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Buckshot
Southern Man said:
I hate to get technical but....... The arrow drop, shooting from an elevated position at a downward angle, wouldn't be as much as from a true level position. It's physics. Gravity doesn't have the same effect when shooting downward. The steeper the shot gets, the less drop you'll have over the same distance, thus you shoot high. The reverse is true shooting at an upward angle. Has anyone ever tried shooting straight down? Put a target at a very steep angle under you and see what kind of groups you get. It will suprise you. An arrow shot using a 20 yard pin at a target 20 yards away from an elevated position will hit differently than an arrow shot using a 20 yard pin at a target 20 yards away on level ground.
Click to expand...
I couldn't disagree more. The effect of gravity is the same whether shooting straight out or down. It is physics, gravity is constant and will have the same effect reguardless of the angle.
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BruceBruce1959
yup buckshot I have to agree with you, gravity is gravity is gravity, there's no such thing as a gravity change.
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Buckshot
:biggrin:

I wish I had a dollar for ever time I had this debate. It is a good one.
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G
shouthern man that long post... What????
Buckshot thats the old way, pre arc range finders, and it works just about right or you can range a tree level out from your stand for the same number.
Now keep this in mind, only to muddy the waters more, I'm 30 ft up a tree shooting at a deer 30 ft below, in elevation, the base of my stand out on a level line from the base of the stand 30 yards. Bruce i'm sure has hunted hillsides like this, that makes you 60 ft above the deer but 30 yards out. This is where that compensating range finder comes in handy.
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H
I have to disagree on this one. Once the site pins are set there are no further adjustments that can compensate for different angle shots except for the shooter to change the the arrows point of impact by adjusting up or down slightly. So in essence the pin used is not going to be exactly on without some sort of mental adjustment on where to hit for the perfect shot angle. This is how I do it, which is most likely different than how you'all do it.
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BruceBruce1959
this is one of those subjects that can easily cause debate but I know between the bunch of us, ONE of us would get that deer.
And I'll have you guys know I would be willing to share my venison. :w00t: LOL just kidding guys
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Buckshot
ronn said:
shouthern man that long post... What????
Buckshot thats the old way, pre arc range finders, and it works just about right or you can range a tree level out from your stand for the same number.
Now keep this in mind, only to muddy the waters more, I'm 30 ft up a tree shooting at a deer 30 ft below, in elevation, the base of my stand out on a level line from the base of the stand 30 yards. Bruce i'm sure has hunted hillsides like this, that makes you 60 ft above the deer but 30 yards out. This is where that compensating range finder comes in handy.
Click to expand...

No doubt that the compensating range finder would be an asset. As odd as it seems if you know the level line distance out is 30 yards you shoot the 30 yard pin.
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