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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today at church was about Romans ch.13. from what I read and what pastor said Im havin problems with this.Any help understanding this chapter would help a bunch,really has my hart and mind in conflict.:wallbash:
 

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Hey there hellbilly...
I hope I can help you out, but remember, I'm no Bible master! From what I read in this passage it is telling us that we need to show responsibility in our lives in every way. We as Christians, need to live a life that others see as being responsible. This passage also talks about respect for laws and authority figures. I'll be the first one to admit that I sometimes do not talk respectively about our national leaders, but that's what this passage is saying as well. Even though we may not have voted for them or wanted them in office, we still need to show them respect. I think it's so that they don't become defensive. Have you ever been in a leader seat and everyone is against you? It's no fun and before you know it, you're taking jabs back at all the people who are jabbing you. Then, everything is out of wack. I think this is what's happening to our country right now. Our President's approval rating is so low that he's being attacked and he's having to attack back. People are on edge, even the ones who voted for him and like him. That has in itself made this country edgey and on the brink of disaster.
All in all, God is telling us to be responsible in our actions. Whatever in life brings responsibility to us, we need to man-up and take it, even if it's not good.
One thing you have to remember when reading God's word is that everything comes back to LOVE. God wants us to love one another. Even though we may not like our neighbor, or ex, or a certain politican, we have to remember this is God's creation and he loves His creation no matter what. He may not be happy with how his creation handles conflicts or how his creation treats Him, but He is a forgiving God and a loving God.

I went ahead and looked this passage up online in "The Message Bible". This translation of the Bible is NOT the true Bible, but it does NOT add anything to the Bible nor does it take anything away. It merely puts the Bible in today's language and sometimes can help understand what the Bible is trying to tell us. Here it is:

Romans 13

To Be a Responsible Citizen


1 -3Be a good citizen. All governments are under God. Insofar as there is peace and order, it's God's order. So live responsibly as a citizen. If you're irresponsible to the state, then you're irresponsible with God, and God will hold you responsible. Duly constituted authorities are only a threat if you're trying to get by with something. Decent citizens should have nothing to fear.
3 -5Do you want to be on good terms with the government? Be a responsible citizen and you'll get on just fine, the government working to your advantage. But if you're breaking the rules right and left, watch out. The police aren't there just to be admired in their uniforms. God also has an interest in keeping order, and he uses them to do it. That's why you must live responsibly—not just to avoid punishment but also because it's the right way to live.
6 -7That's also why you pay taxes—so that an orderly way of life can be maintained. Fulfill your obligations as a citizen. Pay your taxes, pay your bills, respect your leaders.
8 -10Don't run up debts, except for the huge debt of love you owe each other. When you love others, you complete what the law has been after all along. The law code—don't sleep with another person's spouse, don't take someone's life, don't take what isn't yours, don't always be wanting what you don't have, and any other "don't" you can think of—finally adds up to this: Love other people as well as you do yourself. You can't go wrong when you love others. When you add up everything in the law code, the sum total is love. 11 -14But make sure that you don't get so absorbed and exhausted in taking care of all your day-by-day obligations that you lose track of the time and doze off, oblivious to God. The night is about over, dawn is about to break. Be up and awake to what God is doing! God is putting the finishing touches on the salvation work he began when we first believed. We can't afford to waste a minute, must not squander these precious daylight hours in frivolity and indulgence, in sleeping around and dissipation, in bickering and grabbing everything in sight. Get out of bed and get dressed! Don't loiter and linger, waiting until the very last minute. Dress yourselves in Christ, and be up and about!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I get that,But the pastor was telling us that Obama was placed and ordained by GOD and we should do what he wants good or bad.Just like hitler and stalin were ordaned by GOD and place by him as leaders.We or to do what ever they say because of this.Also said America was not founded on christian ideas because we went againts the king and fought his army over taxs and then for the country.This is what Im having trouble with.So with that being said then sadam hussain was placed by GOD and what ever he done as a ordaned leader was ok?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I would change churches as that pastor and his negative preaching on America would be a big down for me. Way to much negativity going around these days.
thats what Im thinking,it bad when you leave church mad.But I must find out if he is somewhat right or not before I shut that door.I never really cared for his preaching since they hired him.Last year I went on a hunting trip and missed 3 sundays.When I got back he said he will never call any body to see whay they havnt come in a few weeks.said he will just say glad to see you back.We have lost about 1/3 of the people in the past year since they hired him.The only reason Im still there is because of family and friends that dont wont to leave because they have been going there from a child:wallbash::wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:
 

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Well ok,,, I didn't know he went into that extent of politics during a sermon hellbilly!!! Personally, that is not the place or the time to discuss politics whether it's by the people going to church there or, especially, the pastor. Now, granted, I would not be caught dead in a church with a liberal pastor because we all know what liberals stand for and that goes against my Christian beliefs. As a Christian, I find it awfully hard to be a liberal and a Christian at the same time. I don't think it can be done.
Now, if this is what your pastor was portraying... then I would call him up and have a sit down with him just you and him and find out what he was trying to portray before you actually think about leaving the church. He may have just been misunderstood. I would also voice my concerns to my pastor that I didn't feel like church was a place to speak about politics and to express our political views.
Personally I believe in my heart and KNOW for a fact, this country WAS founded on Christian values and morals. The reason why this country is going the way it is now, is NOT because of the Conservatives in this country so that leaves one group. I would have a hard time swallowing if my pastor told me and the congregation that our country was not founded on God alone. That's absolutely obsurd.
Now... as far as the Obama thing. I do agree with one thing, but it is extremely hard for me to do... and that is we should respect our leaders in office. I know Obama is not the right person for the job and he is running this country into the ground, but God wants us to pray for him and to love him. That's the only way this country will get better while he's in office. Like I said before... if we keep taking jabs at him, he'll get worse and worse at his job. This is hard for me to do because he is an extremist liberal who does not believe in God... yet I'm supposed to pray to the real GOD in heaven above for him? The answer is yes.
 

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On another note,,, what our churches need these days is people staying put in them and weathering the storm. If this pastor does turn out to be a bad one,,, your church needs you there... they don't need you to run away. If I were in your shoes (which I am, I have been at the same church since child-birth) I would stick it out. That is your church, your place of worship, where you go to worship God and to spend time with your brothers and sisters in Christ. Don't let one person drive you away from a Church, even if it is the Pastor. In this case, I would meet with him one on one and discuss what's on your mind. He's a pastor, that's what he does. Then make your decision. Just my opinion...
 

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The Bible does say that all Leaders are put in place by God for His purposes. There are many examples in the Bible of Bad leaders - we need to remember that God is Sovereign and above all. Not one bad leader is more powerful than God.

Like Tator said, we need to respect and pray for Obama because he is our leader and like it or not was put in place by God for this appointed time. Personally I have a hard time with this. His policies are killing America and go against everything I hope and dream for America. Still we are supposed to love him - one of my biggest struggles right now. Your pastor is dead wrong in saying we need to do everything he Obama says. Show me that in the Bible. Christians must rememeber that above all God is supreme. We must answer to Him first. The book of Daniel comes to mind since I have just read it this week. Shadrach, Meshach, and Adenego (spelling is way off) refused to worship the statue of the king. They were thrown into a firery furnace for there refusal. They were miraculously protected by God but they were not guarenteed this. They said God is our number one, He will protect us if he chooses and if he dosen't so be it, we will not worship the king. The same thing happend years later to Daniel. In an effort to trap Daniel some politicians had a decree made that anyone that prays to any god other than the king would be throen into the lions den. Daniel prayed opening to God and faced the consequences. Again God protected him. In both instances, God was glorified and the true followers of God elevated in the worlds eyesbecause of there faithfulness.

One other point - I just finished reading a book by Craig Groeshell (spelling again) called "Christian Atheist - Believing in God but living as if He dosen't exist" He has a chapter that talks about if the church isn't what you want it to be, dont quit going but work harder to make it what it should be.
 

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The Bible does say that all Leaders are put in place by God for His purposes. There are many examples in the Bible of Bad leaders ....pray for Obama because he is our leader and like it or not was put in place by God for this appointed time. His policies are killing America and go against everything I hope and dream for America.

You know, you bring up a good point TTH... Just like in our personal lives God puts us through tough times, for example: deaths of loved ones, divorces, money problems, injuries, etc.... Well maybe this is the same for our country. Maybe He is wanting us to band together and bring Him back into the focus of this country?!?!?! He's allowing us to go through this tough time as a nation because He's teaching us. Teaching us how NOT to do things on earth and how having non-Christians lead your country is NOT a good thing. Personally, I think this could be statistically proven... just look at Obama's approval rating. It's lower than low. That means, people who even voted for him are now regreting it. Let us all continue to pray for our President that he will not change anything more than will effect our country in a negetive way. Let's also pray that the rest of his time in office, there are no MAJOR decisions to be made by him. Let's just hope and pray for our country too guys. We need to band together and elect the CORRECT person this time. Not someone who we think will do a good job, but someone who WILL DO a good job as our president and someone who is a Christian and believes in the Lord Jesus Christ.


--sorry to get off subject guys.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
thanks guys for all the input.Ill just do some studying and ask him if we can have a one on one chat and see if I can get this put to bed.If not and he stands on what he said what should I do? Talk to the elders see what they say?
 

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Tator, can't the membership petition for his removal? I know my mom's church did that( Luthern).

Absolutely, but at the same time, I would make really sure that this guy didn't just make a huge mistake. If this is a christian or baptist church (I'm baptist) and this guy is truely liberal in every sense, I just don't see how he can be a pastor and a liberal at the same time. That's sort of like being Bi-sexual, you're still gay... get my drift? Being BI doesn't make it ok...
 

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Ill just do some studying and ask him if we can have a one on one chat and see if I can get this put to bed.If not and he stands on what he said what should I do? Talk to the elders see what they say?

I would. Elders or deacons, whoever the "administration" is for your church. Obviously if you are feeling this way, you're not the only one. Like I said, I would first make sure I was really clear about what he said and how he said it. Don't start spreading rumors or gossip in the church either, that will help no one and nothing. I would keep it one on one and talk to him about what he said, and I would express my views. I totally get the part about respecting your leaders, but I'm not going to live my life the way Obama wants me to live it. If that were the case I'd be worshiping a false god and believing in non-biblical things (abortion, divorce, homosexuality, worshiping false gods, etc...) all of which the Bible says are not OK. Obama stands for those things, he is in FULL support of those things. That's extreme liberalist for you. I do not agree with their lifestyle but I respect the man because he is our President.
 

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thanks guys for all the input.Ill just do some studying and ask him if we can have a one on one chat and see if I can get this put to bed.If not and he stands on what he said what should I do? Talk to the elders see what they say?
Study is important, but I have found that I sometimes study too much.

That is, I look to find ways of reconciling this world with God's word. I have to be reminded that prayer is the best way to keep aligned with God's plan.

Study, listen, learn, challenge, and pray. I read a book recently ("Too busy Not To Pray"). There was a particular chapter that struck me. The author worked through the elements of a prayer. That is, he wanted to give a structure to prayer. Now, he wasn't being dogmatic ("Prayer MUST be . . .). However, his points were well made and can help remind us of why we should pray and where our minds should be when we pray.

I should be able to find the notes I wrote when I read that book, if folks are interested.
 

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Just a thought.
We pray for this and that, for this to happen,what do you (God) want me to do, how do I handle this, etc etc. I find myself in a lot of the above problems
make all the "proper requests" then take off to do whatever it is the world is pulling me away to do. Then God rang my bell! How can you know what to do if you don't quiet yourself and listen to Me? "Be still and know that I am God"
You wouldn't run off from a conversation with your best friend, am I less than him? My new motto two ears ,one mouth, listen twice as much as you talk.
I just wish I could be better a heeding that advice, I'll keep trying.
daddus
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Study is important, but I have found that I sometimes study too much.

That is, I look to find ways of reconciling this world with God's word. I have to be reminded that prayer is the best way to keep aligned with God's plan.

Study, listen, learn, challenge, and pray. I read a book recently ("Too busy Not To Pray"). There was a particular chapter that struck me. The author worked through the elements of a prayer. That is, he wanted to give a structure to prayer. Now, he wasn't being dogmatic ("Prayer MUST be . . .). However, his points were well made and can help remind us of why we should pray and where our minds should be when we pray.

I should be able to find the notes I wrote when I read that book, if folks are interested.
interested in them. I guess my #1 problem is like this. You know the stages of a christian, start out like baby on bottle and progress from there.Id say at this point in my life Im a toddler, no bottle,but soft food and alittle cerial. then I get something like this put on my plate,its big and tough and I only have a few teeth.Does this make sence to yall?
 

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Hellbilly - to finish out your analogy. When that big and tough food is on your plate and you take it. It might make your jaw sore and choke you up a bit but once you've finished you'll be stronger and that that much more ready in the future for more. Not saying that you want more tough food/situations but a little stretching and being pushed out of our comfort zones is good now and then.
 

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This is a very interesting thread! You all make very good points. I like how we've been drawn to the topic of Prayer and I think God has lead each of us to this so that Hellbilly knows what to do.. PRAY about it. God will always listen. He may not answer as soon as we want or with the answer we want,,, but he'll always listen and he's always answer prayers.. even if it's a NO.
Daddus... I like your comment about having two ears and one mouth! That brought up a memory for me. I used to have a Sunday School Teacher that would say that almost weekly to us!
I also look at prayer like this.. I heard this somewhere one time and I agree with it (I Think it was on Christian Radio) but the pastor said when you pray to God, you first need to ask forgiveness of your sins. If you think about it, when our kids do something wrong and we send them to their room... when they come down we TALK about it and then make them say I'M SORRY. Well that's because they need to learn, before they go on, what they did wrong and why it's so bad to have a time-out. Well the same goes for God. I believe, He wants us to ask for this forgiveness,, AND MEAN IT,, before He's going to answer our prayers. Maybe, if there's something in your life that you are praying about hard everyday, maybe you haven't asked Him for forgiveness of all your sins?!? Try it.
The other thing about prayer that I never realized until about a month ago or so, our pastor talked about this in church one Sunday... try praying without saying the word "I" or "Me". It's next to impossible. The other thing is,,, try praying to God without asking for anything. Now that's hard to do as well! Many times when we pray we hurry through it because we are caught up on our schedule. God wants to talk to us just like a friend wants to talk to us. He wants us to spend time with Him in His word and just conversing with him. I have a 25 min drive to work everyday and many times, this is my Talking With God Time. I try not to talk about me, and I try not to ask anything. It's sort of weird at first but after you do this for awhile, it's just like talking with a friend. That's what God is, our #1 friend. He is SO much for us that it's not even funny. He's truely our Father... He wants to be in our lives and He wants to be involved with everything we do!
 
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