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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
what are your thoughts on the ithaca model 37 in 16GA? i plan on hunting with my rem 700 in .223, seeing how new york doesnt have a caliber restriction. but my brother in law offered to let me use his shotgun if i dont feel like carrying a 15LB rifle through the woods. if you guys have any experience with it, what it normally shoots well, how it handles, stuff like that. id like to hear it all. ive never hunted with a shotgun, just my rifle and a muzzle loader.
 

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The Ithaca is one of the finest shotguns in my opinion (I own three) and 16 gauge should do the job well enough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
oh, i should also mention buck shot is illegal in new york for deer, so slugs only. brands? weights? stuff like that.
 

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I'd get a 12 or a 20gauge. There aren't very many options for 16gauge. If you're hunting deer with it you will want a slug barrel, either rifled or unrifled. .223 does NOT make a good deer round. It might do the job but shot placement is extremely critical.
 

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I agree with the 223 not being a good deer round and we've had this discussion many times here. I have a few Ithaca's and also think they are very good shotguns. Without a rifled barrel, range will be about 70 yds max. The 16 ga slug will take down deer as will 12 & 20. I'd do my best to beg borrow a rifle in a better caliber if I could. With shotguns you have to purchase a couple different brands and see which one groups best. If the shot gun is not riffled then don't purchase sabot slugs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
i hear what youre saying about the .223, but dont we(army, marines ETC.) hunt the most dangerous game on earth with it? man? also, i hunted last year with it, with great success. my father in laws brother had a .30-06 and had a few lost deer. i understand shot placement is critical, thats why i shoot it as often as possible to be sure of my equipment and be sure of my skills to get the job done with said caliber. i dont want to offend anybody, but im not going to change my mind about using my .223 to hunt deer. it can and will shoot .5 MOA. i have no issued hitting the neck if i have to, and the round i choose to hunt with has no problem with full pass throughs. i have never not had a full pass through.

but back to the ithaca. if i remember correctly, its a smooth bore. ive only seen it once or twice, and never actually shot it(another reason im more than likely going to carry my rifle) and its the long barrel. most shots ive ever taken were considerably less than 100M. one shot was at 195, one at around 180. all others, 50-80M. so the 75M max range isnt a bad thing.

although, i will have about a week to try it out. and if in that time i dont feel comfortable with it i wont use it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
i would love to use a muzzle loader, but if i didnt say anything about it here, i gave it to my brother in law(the one with the shotgun) as a wedding gift. hed been eying it up for the almost 2 years i had it. so needless to say, hes going to be hunting with that. so i dont have the option to hunt with a smokepole this year.
 

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I appreciate the services and the special people who serve, a big thank you, however, 223 is simple at best very marginal for deer hunting. I never said it wouldn't kill a deer just is not a great bullet for game. My starting bullet would be a something a bit bigger in weight like 100 gr min. Barnes bullets in 115 are getting good reports. This is one that I'll be looking at for the savage 250-3000. I would really keep the 223 for varmits and look at getting something bigger in the future for deer. Good luck on your NY trip.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
thats what ive heard and read. in the odd chance my father in law is using a rifle, he usually sticks to bow and muzzle loader even where rifles are legal, he uses the barnes tsx in both his .30-06 and his .243. and i guess im helping out the tree hugging hippies by "going green" and filling my freezer.
 
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bullets for hunting aren't meant to "pass through" like arrows. bullets kill differently than arrows. arrows by hemorrhaging, cutting, and bullets by exploding the cells via massive about of energy, like shooting a milk jug full of water but on a cellular level. so you want all the energy from the bullet to be delivered into the animal not passing through.

the military uses the 223 not to kill the enemy, thats why full jacket and not a rapidly expanding bullet, but to take them out of service by wounding and therefore taking 4 others to deal with the wound and all the resources to save the soldier. so, no the 223 is not a great round for big game, unless your goal is to wound them. can the 223 kill a deer? yes but so can a 22lr.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
well, i dont consider deer big game, theyre more like medium game. bear, moose, elk, thats big game. i never said the .223 is a "great" big game caliber. its just what i choose to hunt with, its what im comfortable with(not as far as recoil, ive hunted muzzle loader before), its what i trust to hunt with. if i was going after bear, id bring my .450 bushmaster(oh no, a "black gun" hide your children!) and id buy a new muzzle loader if i was going after elk or moose. and yes, the .223 does tumble causing massive tissue damage. although, that only really happens with FMJ bullets, and its not predictable either. it may enter perfect broadside in the shoulder, and then exit somewhere around the hind quarter opposite side, or go the other way. you never really know. personally, id rather have a pass through. that way you get the massive damage of and expanded bullet, and a two sided blood trail, if they decide they can still run after that. might i also add, ive never had to go more than 15M from where they were shot to find my deer? using my .223. youre not going to change my mind. im set on what im hunting with, and my state says its legal and ethical to hunt with it. so, lets get back to the ithaca, sound good?
 

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Getting the last word around here can be tough at times, and I don't like leaving a discussion where the subject is of interest to many members. I fully understand the legal to use a 223 cal so go for it, however, please don't try to convince us that's a great deer caliber, sorry it's not happening for me. I'll stick to (my) opinion that you need 243 type bullets to start the deer bullet sizeing and go up from there. Poachers kill with the 22 long rifle is that a great deer bullet? It kills effectively but is it right? The 223 is at best a very good varmit round but a poor choise for deer and not legal in every state. There are so many effective calibers to choose from that are vastly superior to the 223 and they're out there for a few dollars at every gun show. I like good debate as long as we do it in a respectable manner and if in the end we simply agree to disagree that's great.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
im not trying to change anyones mind at all. all im saying is im not changing mine either. as i said before, ive hunted succesfully with my .223 before, and i plan to do it again. ive also said im not trying to offend anyone, and i really hope i didnt, seeing how this is a fantastic forum and the short time ive been here i can already see there is a wealth of knowledge here.

do i plan to keep the .223 as my only deer rifle forever? no. i plan on buying a new muzzle loader next year, and that will become my go to gun. after that, i plan on buying either a .243 win, or a .240 weatherby mag. i know the .240 is more expensive, but if i use it for deer hunting, wont be that bad, then my .223 will go back to being my target gun again. see what im saying?
 

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Got you, fully understand. I should have gave you more back ground on the 223 prior posts, they weren't too in favor of using it for deer. That's where i come from also, sorry to have come off a bit heavy handed on the issue. HM
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
no problem hunting man, i get it on the other forums im a member of. ive got thick skin, we give eachother hell at the motorpool i work at, but its the way of life in the army i guess. it will be very hard to offend me. im also pretty good at standing my ground and getting set in my ways. i knew from day one it wasnt the perfect deer rifle, and actually it wasnt meant to be either. but at one point(when i first got my muzzle loader that i gave away) i hadnt worked up a good enough load for it, and my father in law wanted me to go hunting, so i grabbed my .223 and off we went. and ive already said everything else about it, no need to repeat myself.
 
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