deputydog, I hunt in north/central PA, pre-rut is just prior to Holloween. Then in Nov around the 6-12 is when we see rut activity. Like all the posts here, a small swing either way can take place mostly weather related. Buy the first day after Thanksgiving, which is opening day of rifle season some of the bucks necks have started to reduce in size indicating the rut is slowing down and also the bucks are starting to lose some pre-rut weight.