[WHITETAILFEVER]

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no:

 

[Buckshot]

It is hard to manage a deer herd on 500 acres but you can have some impact. I would point out a couple of things:

1) Generally you will see more small bucks and does even in a well balanced herd because the big bucks didn't get big by being visible. A camera census may help.

2) I doubt the smaller bucks are breeding the does. You may see them chasing the does but if there are dominant bucks around the does will find them.

Typically the QDM managers I know use a combination of camera census, written hunter reports and harvest information to determine the deer density, sex ratio and percentage of older age class bucks. Then they set the harvest goals for the club. A QDM club I belong to requires that every deer harvested be checked in, aged and scored at the club or face a fine. That club requires a 100 inch minimum antler score before it is harvested or pay a fine. Generally that protects all the bucks under 3.5 years old.

My 2 cents would be to hammer away at the does and let all the under age bucks pass. Determine what's the minimum age buck you want to harvest and wait for him. I would also try to recruit the adjoining land owners to protect the young bucks.

 

[wmi]

Well you have decide if you want to manage QDMA or the trophy way. They are simular but still very different. As far as Qdma it would be best to get all of their info from them (LOTS OF INFO). The trophy way is diff. 500 acres is a big property but not in the whitetail world. At this time I'm hunting around 20 properties totaling around 4100 acres. Each is of coarse diff. My way might not be the right way but it really works for me. I shoot small does and trophy bucks only. Here is why. Trophy bucks are attracted to the more mature does because mature does have a stronger estrus than a young doe. They have twins versus singles. If your property has many mature does then it will attract many mature bucks from all over the area. The mature bucks and does will force the smaller bucks out of the area. Your neighbors will cull those animals for you. Harvest as many small does as you can and you will see a big difference in 2 to 3 years. There is no way you can tell if a buck is going to become a super buck until he is 3 1/2 years of age just the same he will be a nice buck to most hunters. Some may say your land won't be balanced but trust me the surrounding properties will keep that from happening. There is a down side. You will be hunting around the most educated deer in the woods so you will have to be at the top of your game on scent control, wind, and your approach. Try to keep your buck harvest to 130 to 140 or better. In time you will even get to the point of holding out for better. I do not know where you are from so you might have to adjust these marks accordingly. This method works but it will take seasons to see the benifits. There is no quik fix. This is not just oppinion but fact. You have to have anyone else hunting there do the same or it won't work.

 

[joel the signman]

excellent input guys.I say shoot the small does,they taste best . let the others grow,the older does make better moms ,teaching the others how to survive.If ya need an extra shooter to cull those small does im sure you can find some volunteers :w00t:

 

[WHITETAILFEVER]

Thank You For The Very Good Advice!! I Will Be Putting It To Good Use.man I Love This Forum Every Body Seems So Friendly.i Want To Thank You For That.

 

[critter gitter]

We have lots of small bucks here too and we try not to shoot any of them,much better to take the does. If you let the small bucks go they have that much better chance of growing older and older means bigger.

 

[wmi]

I want to add one thing. When you are havesting these small does do it with a bow. You want to keep your property a quiet as possible so the deer look at it as a sanctuary from the hords of hunters surrounding you. You can if your state allows shoot mult. deer from one stand and in one sitting without distubance to the rest of the deer population. It is very important to make these mature deer feel safe. During gun season make it trophy season only. Your best rule of thumb with bucks is if he is not worthy of a trip to the taxidermist don't shoot him. Also in the start up of this do not hunt bedding or feeding areas but travel corridors. This will help deer from going nocturnal on you.:w00t:

 

[BruceBruce1959]

Thank You For The Very Good Advice!! I Will Be Putting It To Good Use.man I Love This Forum Every Body Seems So Friendly.i Want To Thank You For That.

Isn't it better coming to a site where you can let your children browse and know
they're not going to be slammed with bad language or end up reading about filth and foul?
This site is by far the best on the Net...
All thanks goes to our members for maintaining a great family environment..

 

[onehorse]

Isn't it better coming to a site where you can let your children browse and know
they're not going to be slammed with bad language or end up reading about filth and foul?
This site is by far the best on the Net...
All thanks goes to our members for maintaining a great family environment..

Bruce, I couldn't agree with you more. I've quit visitng so many sites because there just seemed to be so many people who were angry or political. Lots of name-calling and fighting going on. Let's do everything we can to keep this one a better, more civil and all-age-friendly site. We adults have to set the example for these young bucks - not only in how we conduct oursleves in the field, but also in the way we relate to each other. It's our responsibility! This has methinking that maybe we should come up with some sort of "pledge" or "motto" or "mission statement" that defines our objectives in that regard. What you guys think about that? Mark, what do you think about this idea?

 

[joel the signman]

see the "sticky" at the top of the forum?
Sticky Thread Sticky: Forum Rules----New Members Please Read it has all of that in it.:thumbup:

 

[onehorse]

Thanks, Joel. I guess I overlooked that.

 

[East Texas Droptine]

I would take a mature doe before I take a smal young buck. . . . . . :yes:

 

[Hunting Man]

Wow this is a great subject. If I was going to set a property for trophy bucks I would first try to shoot all the old dried up does, their only food takers. Next I would take out all the truly inferior bucks leaving the top bucks to breed. Finally I would crop out enough does to balance the deer/acre hoping to have a three or four to one ratio of does to bucks. There are probably two major reasons for small bucks, not enough food/deer or poor nutrition period. Adding food plots and trimming deer numbers will help. You probably will draw deer in from ajoining properties with the food plots, but maybe a couple of great bucks will come too. It is a tough job you have and without fences you may only have marginal results but whatever you do it should provide fun and in about 3-5 years see some results.
Guys this is a great site to discuss hunting and the great outdoors!!!

 

[Turtle]

My brother has been in a club for over ten years with a pretty liberal harvest on just under 300 acres. Five years ago my employer leased the adjoining 900 acres. We only take does and Bucks with at least 8 pts. My brother and his members this years took their biggest deer ever. He's now become a believer after years of saying it wouldn't make a difference. :wallbash:It took us five years but man, what a difference if you just let them grow.ickle:

 

[wmi]

Need to help you on this one. It has been proven that in the wild finding an old dry doe would be the same as you winning the lottery. Does in captivity have produced fawns into their 20s. The chance of a wild doe living that long is slim to none. Just ask Charlie Alsheimer. As far as bucks go the chance of you figuring out if a buck has bad genetics before the age of 3 or 4 is also slim to none. Many bucks have been studied to have spikes first year, forks or basket second year, and be P&Y the next. If you want big deer you have to pass on the small ones and let them grow. I have even heard hunters say boy there was a nice buck here last season and I passed him now he is not here someone must have got him -------Maybe but chances are he is now a 4 1/2 year old. At 4 1/2 years of age a bucks personality changes and he becomes more noctural and secretive. Now you are looking for a shooter. In average conditions on a 500 acre farm during the rut you can have 1 to as many as 5 mature bucks working the property, one is going to be a whopper. Now it becomes our job to put the pieces of the puzzle together faster than he can figure out he is being hunted. In every area we hunt there is a hunter that does it right (legal) and shoots big deer every year. Everyone wants to be him. Without meeting him I can tell you he is selective on what he shoots and has dumped a ton of time into learning how to hunt. The fun part of being a hunter is you never stop learning.:wink:

 

[WHITETAILFEVER]

I Have Never Shot A Really Nice Buck .i Allways Shot The First Leagle Buck I Seen Before I Got The Land I Have Now.this Past Year I Passed Up Like 7 Different Bucks From Spike To A 6ptr.i Had A Hard Time Doing It But It Felt Pretty Good After Especialy Knowing That There Was A Mature Buck In The Area.the Only Time I Seen Him Was On Camera.he Was An 11ptr Real Heavy Horned With A Small Kicker Off The Left Side Of His Horns So I Decided To Wait For Him And I Think I Seen Him The Last Day Of Rife Season Chasing A Doe.but Never Gave Me A Chance.i Know He Is Still There Because I Didn't Hear Of Anybody Talking About Him.so Hopfully Next Year.again I Would Like To Thank Everybody For Your Input It Will Get Put To Good Use And With A Little Luck Maybe I Will Have Some Pictures Of Him To Post.