[Hunting Man]

I like the CCI also for the TC and Knight. I had to clean the Knight breach hole but not the TC Triumph so for.

 

[Hunting Man]

Triumph will most likely like 100 gr BH 209, CCI mag primers, TC superglide sabots/250 gr shockwave bullets. This is a tight load in the TC but pretty accurate combination. FG suggests lapping the bore to polish out any areas in-order to ease up the loading pressure required. Congrats on the purchase of the best production line of ML rifles out there! While the Leupold rifleman scope that I installed on my Triumph is not a ML scope I had it and it was new and I think I will get many years of service from it. Time will tell. I still think a 3x9x40 scope is more than ever fully justified for the new long range shooting ML rifles. Again congrats!

 

[Hunting Man]

The idea is a product like JB Bore paste or similar products will polish out any rough machining areas, burs, sharp edges ect that make loading hard. The polishing just smoothes things out. That's the claim.

 

[Hunting Man]

What FG really wanted to say was CVA, TC, Lyman, Traditions, ect might benefit from an internal polishing. He didn't mean to imply that only TC could benefit. You don't want to polish the CVA's too much do to the extreme overbores and thus having the bullet/sabot fall right out of the barrel if you happen to tip it downwards. :w00t:

 

[Hunting Man]

If I had to rank them out I'd have TC, Traditions, then CVA a distant third. That's just how I see it. Most of all the people I know and hunt with are TC fans, there's a solid historical quality reason for it! To all those in the market for a new/used muzzleloader, you don't have to look no farther than TC line of products. Every TC rifle I have ever owned was a great shooting, accurate, and quality made product, what else needs to be said? Someday CVA will be able to say that, too! Heading to work!

 

[Hunting Man]

In all do respect Muley, I hear so much crap about CVA's that someone has to try to balance the facts a bit here. CVA made some of the biggest junk ML out there for many many years, you know it and so do I. I have owned many ML rifles over the years and currently have around 8, and can/will offer some insight as to quality vs quality. I don't own a Wolf model so you get your kudo's for that model. You won't be able to convince me that a low end CVA is anything close to a TC product. Sorry but that's the way it is. Your opinion is just that only your's. We (all) get that much here. We can argue all day and nothing will come of it. Be happy with your new rifle even if it is a CVA. If I had my choise I'd have a $4000.00 custom Hawken in the vault and not worry about standard production rifles. This old topic is going to get interesting again, I think.

 

[Hunting Man]

Here are some interesting personal facts, I do not know anyone other than those few here that shoot CVA rifles. The absolute clear winner is TC, followed by Traditions, Knight, Lyman. This could be a regional thing, east of the Mississippi thing, historical quality issue and concerns, whatever, the fact is I just don't see people using CVA. If you do great, enjoy the heck out of them just don't believe all the hoopla being thrown around the old mud pit. Here is another interesting fact: the origional Hawken rifles had a rather hourglass bore that constricted in the middle and opened up at both ends. I assume the muzzle open bore was for loading easement. However, accuracy was not compromised. Pretty weird when compared to today's concentric bores.- and those complaining about tight/loose bores.

 

[Hunting Man]

Muley the Baird book clearly describes this barrel and it was not a swamped barrel. The author felt it was a more norm configuration. I don't need your blessing to discuss Hawken projects I'm sure you're not that old to have been there! I'm still a Green Mountain rifle barrel proponet. Remember the old Green River barrels?

 

[Hunting Man]

FG the message was about quality not specific models. Lyman builds a fine mass produced Hawken/plains rifle way better than anything CVA ever produced in that style. You keep trying but come up empty. TC's Penn Hunter once again showed TC's quality in producing a really great ML and used some nice walnut something CVA didn't do very much of.

 

[Hunting Man]

Questioned by who? I hope not Muley!:w00t: I can't think of another writer who put more time and effort to examine/report and debunk myths regarding the Hawken Rifles.

 

[Hunting Man]

FG I'm well aware of those two models of CVA they weren't even close to TC quality. They were at best a poor man's budget compromise purchase that would allow him/her to get into the ML hunting world. Please don't tell me they were high quality rifles, my stomach is turning now. Whats the used price market value between the two? About $100.00. If I sat 10 used TC Hawkens on a table and 10 used CVA hawkens on another table and allowed ten people to choose just one, I would bet the result would be 8 TC to 2 CVA again just an opinion form a TC kind of guy!

 

[Hunting Man]

Heading out to the pool to cool off! I'm sure we'll continue our nice discussion later. :nerd:

 

[Hunting Man]

Muley I hope hunter's luck is with you forever. We'll agree on a few points and disagree on others. One thing I'll agree is ML hunting is a blast no matter what name is on the side of the firearm.