I'm sure it's been asked before but I didn't see anything when I did a search. I'm trying to by proactive and believe it's inevitable that Washington state will eventually go to lead free bullets for big game. I shoot a .243 a .260 and a 7mm-08 and would like to hear peoples experiance with either the Barnes TMX or the Hornady GMX or both of these bullets or really any other lead free bullets that might be out there.
Barnes TMX vs. Hornady GMX?
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I haven't tried the Barnes TSX or Hornady GMX, but I do use the Barnes Expander bullets in my muzzleloader. Those things really do expand like you see in the pictures and they have nearly 100% weight retention. Great bullets.
Hopefully not all States will go lead-free
I understand the reasoning behind lead-free for waterfowl hunting, but I have a larger problem understanding the problem with lead in Deer hunting bullets. I read that the CA DNR is worried that Condors will get lead from big game gutpiles. Ok, we don't have Condors in MN. From what I have read the non-lead bullets then to cause higher pressures. Also the pricepoint of lead-free bullets is higher than conventional core bullets. The price of bullets is already way up, I would rather they not continue to climb.
Karl
I understand the reasoning behind lead-free for waterfowl hunting, but I have a larger problem understanding the problem with lead in Deer hunting bullets. I read that the CA DNR is worried that Condors will get lead from big game gutpiles. Ok, we don't have Condors in MN. From what I have read the non-lead bullets then to cause higher pressures. Also the pricepoint of lead-free bullets is higher than conventional core bullets. The price of bullets is already way up, I would rather they not continue to climb.
Karl
I've heard that the EPA has discussed banning lead bullets on any federal land. That would include national forests and any BLM land. They've already done it to upland bird hunters not just water fowlers. They are requireing lead free shot for any federal land. Here in Washington we have a lot of land on both the Columbia and Snake rivers that are managed by the Army Corp of Engineers and all bird hunting requires lead free shot.
I currently don't use lead-free shot in my shotguns...
I have only gone duck hunting once and that was a long time ago. The lead ban was not inforce where I was hunting at the time. I have a Remington 3200 o/u in 12ga that while certified for lead-free steel shot had one round of steel fired in each barrel. I can still see faint scratches in the barrels. I am not a fan of anything that hard on my shotguns. I know that the newer replacements for steel are softer and not as nasty. I also know they cost out the butt price-wise. I love quail and pheasent hunting, I hope that lead-free isn't mandated for those birds. If one of the big manufactures figured out a dirt cheap friendly replacement for lead that was non-toxic, and sold for the same price as lead I would be less concerned if made to switch over to lead-free.
Karl
I have only gone duck hunting once and that was a long time ago. The lead ban was not inforce where I was hunting at the time. I have a Remington 3200 o/u in 12ga that while certified for lead-free steel shot had one round of steel fired in each barrel. I can still see faint scratches in the barrels. I am not a fan of anything that hard on my shotguns. I know that the newer replacements for steel are softer and not as nasty. I also know they cost out the butt price-wise. I love quail and pheasent hunting, I hope that lead-free isn't mandated for those birds. If one of the big manufactures figured out a dirt cheap friendly replacement for lead that was non-toxic, and sold for the same price as lead I would be less concerned if made to switch over to lead-free.
Karl
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798 Posts
I'm not sure what the discussion is here: how we feel about the possible banning of lead bullets, or the performance of copper bullets, so I'll answer both. For my part, I don't have a problem with banning lead. In any form, it's pretty detrimental to the environment... as well as humans.
As for performance, I have used the Hornady GMX (which is not made of pure copper, but gilding metal which is a little harder) and the Barnes TSX and TTSX - very close to the TMX functionally. All these bullets have been very accurate in all my rifles (as accurate as lead, for sure) and the TTSX has been very bad news for a couple of nice Montana bucks. Everyone that I know who has used copper like it. It's not mandatory here, but they still are isung it.
As for performance, I have used the Hornady GMX (which is not made of pure copper, but gilding metal which is a little harder) and the Barnes TSX and TTSX - very close to the TMX functionally. All these bullets have been very accurate in all my rifles (as accurate as lead, for sure) and the TTSX has been very bad news for a couple of nice Montana bucks. Everyone that I know who has used copper like it. It's not mandatory here, but they still are isung it.
The solid copper TSX bullets weights on Deer
Did you stay with the same weight bullet in the solid alloy bullets or did you go down one weight size? I personally use 165gr in 30 cal in my 30-06s. Should I then plan on going down to 150gr bullets in 30 cal for my 30-06s if I was looking for a similar length bullet with similar performance on game?
Karl
Did you stay with the same weight bullet in the solid alloy bullets or did you go down one weight size? I personally use 165gr in 30 cal in my 30-06s. Should I then plan on going down to 150gr bullets in 30 cal for my 30-06s if I was looking for a similar length bullet with similar performance on game?
Karl
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798 Posts
No. I use several solvents, but the most aggressive - that cleans out everything - is Sweet's 7.62. If you use it, be sure not to leave it in your barrel longer than directed, wipe it it all out and BE SURE to run a swab with a little oil on it through your barrel when you are through cleaning.
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798 Posts
I use 150 gr. TTSX bullets in my 300 SWM for deer and elk, and that's plenty coming out of this gun at a little over 3000 FPS. All the copper bullets are noted for extreme penetration, so you don't need the weight to achieve that. Also, I like the idea of a faster bullet. I believe the 165 grainers would be great, but, honestly, I don't think the 180 gr. will give any better performance.
Cleaning the bore after the all copper bullets. ie TTSX
Can you get the bore clean with just a brass brush with Hopies Number 9? I would rather not have to switch over to the aggressive high tech cleaners. They will supposely keep attacking until neutralized. I would guess that is a very easy way to ruin a good barrel. What do you guys use?
Karl
Can you get the bore clean with just a brass brush with Hopies Number 9? I would rather not have to switch over to the aggressive high tech cleaners. They will supposely keep attacking until neutralized. I would guess that is a very easy way to ruin a good barrel. What do you guys use?
Karl
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820 Posts
The copper only bullets are copper on the outside just like copper jacketed bullets.
The solid copper bullets leave a mess
I remember when Barnes was first pushing there bullets that it was a problem with them leaving lots of copper in the bore. They were formed using soft copper due to them not having a soft lead core. I thought that there was also problems with the Barnes TTSX bullets leaving more copper deposits then say a Nosler ballistic tip or Partition bullet. The story that I remember was that Barnes used pure copper instead of the alloy that bullet manufactures normally use. The solid alloy bullets from Nosler and Hornady use basically jacket alloy without the lead core. I would like to buy a box of the Barnes TTSX bullets, but don't want to have issues getting the copper fouling out using standard cleaning methods. I know that Barnes added the groves into their bullet to lower the pressure of the bullet in the bore without a compressible lead core. This might also mean that they have gone over to an alloy of copper, and is no longer pure copper.
Karl
I remember when Barnes was first pushing there bullets that it was a problem with them leaving lots of copper in the bore. They were formed using soft copper due to them not having a soft lead core. I thought that there was also problems with the Barnes TTSX bullets leaving more copper deposits then say a Nosler ballistic tip or Partition bullet. The story that I remember was that Barnes used pure copper instead of the alloy that bullet manufactures normally use. The solid alloy bullets from Nosler and Hornady use basically jacket alloy without the lead core. I would like to buy a box of the Barnes TTSX bullets, but don't want to have issues getting the copper fouling out using standard cleaning methods. I know that Barnes added the groves into their bullet to lower the pressure of the bullet in the bore without a compressible lead core. This might also mean that they have gone over to an alloy of copper, and is no longer pure copper.
Karl
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