I don't bait because I know how to hunt.
Baiting
Things are a bit slow here so lets open for debate the issue of baiting game animals for the sole purpose of harvesting them. First, let me say I've baited many years ago so I do know what its all about. Secondly, I've chosen not to bait as I now do not care to hunt that way. Here's the question: What do the members here feel with regards to legal baiting. Please keep the debate civil and your goal is to convince me that baiting is and should remain an accepted method of legal hunting, or why baiting should be banned. I do not consider food plots baiting if animals are not shot over the plots. Remember this is just a questioniare. Fire away!:nerd:
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G
someone is feeling randy.grin I'll play. look at it this way. is it hunting over a bait if you shoot a deer going to a cut corn field where the corn spills on the ground? Is that hunting a food source? a food plot? bait? Now what if you shoot that same deer on the edge of the field? 30 yards in the woods going to the corn? 100 yards going to the corn? 500yards going to the corn? I don't think hunting over a bait is bad or wrong cause in a way we all do it. natural bait, the oak stand, or man made. what about a water source? man made pond? water tank? what about a decoy? isn't that bait? or the scent from a bottle of a hot doe? everyone hunts over bait. as a hunter its your job to know where the food is and use it to your advantage with an opposable thumb we can put it where we want. the plus side is a hunter's ability to pick and choose the game to take if bait has made the game more predictable. i know that some parts of the country there really isn't any advantage cause the food sources and the travel routes are limited and very predictable. the down side is mature deer can be wary of anything that wasn't there before. baiting for hunting is no different than fishing. there you have it. what do ya think?
Baiting= Taking a bag of corn etc and dumping it on the ground by a stand
Patterning= Locating food source, locating bedding, locating travel routes, LEARNING
Hunting= Learning how to PATTERN deer and choosing stand location
:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
Patterning= Locating food source, locating bedding, locating travel routes, LEARNING
Hunting= Learning how to PATTERN deer and choosing stand location
:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
I guess im still in the "I dont know" on this topic.. Let me explain why.. I read ronn's post and thought "yeah that all makes sense", but then I read wmi's post and thought "heck thats a good way of looking at it too"
I guess it dont bother me how you do it as long as its done legally for your state. Its not legal in TN so it would tick me off if I knew the farm next to the one Im hunting has bags of corn all over the ground..
If I took the time to build a food plot you better believe Id would put a stand around it if the deer were hitting it..
ronn's point of "doe in heat" being considered bait is a good one.. If you look at it that way its the same as dumping corn on the ground...
wmi's point of "patterning = learning" is darn good one too
I guess it dont bother me how you do it as long as its done legally for your state. Its not legal in TN so it would tick me off if I knew the farm next to the one Im hunting has bags of corn all over the ground..
If I took the time to build a food plot you better believe Id would put a stand around it if the deer were hitting it..
ronn's point of "doe in heat" being considered bait is a good one.. If you look at it that way its the same as dumping corn on the ground...
wmi's point of "patterning = learning" is darn good one too
G
its a "ride in a boat or paddle the boat" type thing. aren't both "someone dumping corn on the ground"? in some places patterning deer isn't as easy as places with beans a corn growing. so a guy creates a food source and pattern deer. kinda like making a jig in wood working. i really could go either way. here's a thought, lots of bear and coyote baiting goes on. so what makes deer so different. why are deer so special. another thing we hunt rabbits and bear and **** and birds with dogs why are deer special? thinking on a pure predator/prey bases. its almost you got to be PC and hunt deer "fair". playing devils advocate here.
I like baiting/ I do bait. But I bait for the soul purpose of seeing the deer, not harvesting them. But I don't think baiting deer for harvest is as bad as some people may think, hey it actually can add weight, lol - you still have sit in a stand or blind and you are not guaranteed to always see anything...now I must say I think that your chances might be better than someone that sits on a trail - but that trail goes somewhere, maybe to corn, or soybeans, or water, it goes somewhere and more than likely to a food source. The thing with baiting is you can have the deer concentrated in one particular spot whereas 'trail hunting' you have to pick a spot and hope the deer come there and do not take take another route. but that's the same thing with baiting you still are not guaranteed to anything...maybe the deer got spooked by a coyote and won't be coming to the corn tonite, or this moring...really I think your chances are ALMOST and I say ALMOST the same as someone who hunts over a trail, you still have to sit just like everyone else and you are NOT guaranteed to see anything - I know I didn't really answer the question but that's my thoughts on the "situation"
you have to define baiting before it can be discussed, like ronn said natural food sources are a form of baiting
If you're sitting at the source waiting for the deer to come in to get some, that could be defined as baiting and
here in Vt. a lot of guys try using that explaination as their argument or defense when they get caught.
Some scents/lures can be deemed as illegal here in Vermont also.
from the Vermont Q&A section of the Rules and regulations.
Q: What about scents and lures? Can I use these products?
A: A scent or lure is legal, provided it is not placed or used in such a way that deer can eat or lick it.
that makes products like C'mere Deer and DeerCain and similar products illegal...
The stores are still allowed to sell them,,, I think Vermont should ban such products.
In Vermont Hunting over a natural food source is legal
anything carried in for wildlife consumption is illegal
even if it's something that grows in the wild naturally, like apples.
After you've spent 36 years as a non-baiting hunter, it's hard to accept baiting as a legal means for hunting
but I don't have any I'll feelings or disrespect for hunters using it in areas where baiting is legal.
I like wmi's statement, "I don't bait because I know how to hunt." That's how I roll... :w00t:
If you're sitting at the source waiting for the deer to come in to get some, that could be defined as baiting and
here in Vt. a lot of guys try using that explaination as their argument or defense when they get caught.
Some scents/lures can be deemed as illegal here in Vermont also.
from the Vermont Q&A section of the Rules and regulations.
Q: What about scents and lures? Can I use these products?
A: A scent or lure is legal, provided it is not placed or used in such a way that deer can eat or lick it.
that makes products like C'mere Deer and DeerCain and similar products illegal...
The stores are still allowed to sell them,,, I think Vermont should ban such products.
In Vermont Hunting over a natural food source is legal
anything carried in for wildlife consumption is illegal
even if it's something that grows in the wild naturally, like apples.
After you've spent 36 years as a non-baiting hunter, it's hard to accept baiting as a legal means for hunting
but I don't have any I'll feelings or disrespect for hunters using it in areas where baiting is legal.
I like wmi's statement, "I don't bait because I know how to hunt." That's how I roll... :w00t:
Baiting changes deer movements, concentrating deer into areas depleting areas of natural brows. What happens when Joe the bucket sitter stops? I'll tell you first hand they leave the area all together. With bait piles what have you learned? Oh I know the deer seem to like the corn from Southern States better than the Coop. Boy learned a lot this season. Oh Ron deer are special here because this is the DeerHuntersClub.com.
I don't like baiting because it is lazy hunting and does nothing to challenge the hunter. It does nothing to increase the hunters knowledge or respect for the animal. We see it on may past posts on this forum. Many posts basically sayng deer are dumb. OR as I look at it they are saying I'm a good smart hunter because I use bait piles.:wacko::crazy::whistling:
I don't like baiting because it is lazy hunting and does nothing to challenge the hunter. It does nothing to increase the hunters knowledge or respect for the animal. We see it on may past posts on this forum. Many posts basically sayng deer are dumb. OR as I look at it they are saying I'm a good smart hunter because I use bait piles.:wacko::crazy::whistling:
baiting is very unhealthy for deer it causes them to congregate in a specific area allowing for disease to be spread easily .In winter time up north deer "yard " up when people feed the deer deer leave the yard and are often attacked by prey animals and they die from exhaustion in the deep snow trying to reach or return from the bait/feed sites.You are doing the deer no favors by feeding them .dont do it
VERY good point Joel, and right on the money!
whats the difference if a deer comes to a pile of corn on the ground or feeding in a corn field?whats the difference with apples?on the tree or on the ground??they end up on the ground anyways?bails of alfalfa?in a field or bale?the deer will yard up regardless if there is a pile of corn so whats stopping them from speading some kind of disease when they yard up?i don't think baiting deer is a bad thing!and its not a lazy mans way of hunting it accually alot of work,time,money.look how much time,money preperation it takes to plant a food plot??but thats a lazy hunter??i would have no problem harvesting a deer over bait!!no regrets,no shame. But thats just my opinion.baiting is very unhealthy for deer it causes them to congregate in a specific area allowing for disease to be spread easily .in winter time up north deer "yard " up when people feed the deer deer leave the yard and are often attacked by prey animals and they die from exhaustion in the deep snow trying to reach or return from the bait/feed sites.you are doing the deer no favors by feeding them .dont do it
Thanks for all the good posts. Baiting is a touchy subject and the decision to bait or not is a personal one, where legal of course. Baiting makes things much easier and without a doubt takes the hunting out of the equation, and only allows the shooting. I know many will dissagree with me on this, but I get an opinion too. Thanks again for the good responces on a very sensitive subject!
In winter time UP NORTH it could be bad for the deer....but in the summer time it could and probably will be very good for the deer, help them add weight and grow antlers...in some states is it legal to feed or bait in the summer but not in the winter?...seems like I heard that before but maybe I'm just making this upbaiting is very unhealthy for deer it causes them to congregate in a specific area allowing for disease to be spread easily .In winter time up north deer "yard " up when people feed the deer deer leave the yard and are often attacked by prey animals and they die from exhaustion in the deep snow trying to reach or return from the bait/feed sites.You are doing the deer no favors by feeding them .dont do it
several studies were done on this and have shown that bait concentrates the animals in one area unlike a whole cornfield or apple orchard that's just common sense.a pile vrs a field come on.In NY its illegal to feed deer year round unless its a food plot.I never said creating a food plot was lazy or that baiting was a lazy way to hunt .i said it wasn't healthy for the deer.Deer can get plenty of food in the wild.when you bait the deer will congregate in the baited area when many times they woudln't be there .while they are waiting for you to drop your bucket of corn they are decimating the local forage to unsustainable levels.in some areas the deer have eaten all the the browse to the height that they can reach standing up on the rear legs.hows that good for the environment?If its legal in your area to bait and hunt have at but if you think your helping out the deer herd you are not plain and simple.deer dont need to grow huge racks people want to see them they get all the nutrition they need in the wild supplemental feeding is unhealthy bottom line.read up on it
that right its your opinion the facts are otherwisewhats the difference if a deer comes to a pile of corn on the ground or feeding in a corn field?whats the difference with apples?on the tree or on the ground??they end up on the ground anyways?bails of alfalfa?in a field or bale?the deer will yard up regardless if there is a pile of corn so whats stopping them from speading some kind of disease when they yard up?i don't think baiting deer is a bad thing!and its not a lazy mans way of hunting it accually alot of work,time,money.look how much time,money preperation it takes to plant a food plot??but thats a lazy hunter??i would have no problem harvesting a deer over bait!!no regrets,no shame. But thats just my opinion.
Joel is right, I've read several articles on Baiting/feeding deer and after some studies they all conclude it's bad for deer to congregate for food.
The biggest concern is CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease)
YES deer naturally congregate for food but a pile of food isn't natural and deer shouldn't be concentrated into such a small feeding zone.
* Baiting and Feeding causes unnatural concentration of deer
* Disease course and symptoms indicate high potential for transmission where deer are concentrated
experts in CWD, wildlife disease and deer nutrition support bans on baiting and feeding as part of a
comprehensive strategy to prevent and/or manage CWD.
Under a baiting and feeding ban, disease outbreaks are more likely to be smaller in scale and more apt to be
contained or eliminated. With the long CWD incubation period and other factors that make discovery of a new
outbreak difficult, an outbreak that is already widespread when detected because of baiting and feeding may not be
able to be contained or eliminated.
CWD is similar to mad cow disease in cattle and
scrapie in sheep
CWD is known to infect free-ranging deer and elk in areas of Colorado, Wyoming, Nebraska, South Dakota, Utah, New Mexico, Wisconsin, Illinois, New York, West Virginia, and Saskatchewan. It has been diagnosed in deer and elk in game ranches in Colorado, Nebraska, South Dakota, Montana, Wisconsin, Oklahoma, Kansas, New York, and in the Canadian provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan
I don't think anyone wants CWD present in their Deer or Elk, So far Vermont has never had to deal with CWD (Thank God) but Vermont
and the other non-infected states are not immune to the disease...
(Vermont has strict laws on Baiting/feeding) maybe that's why we haven't been affected with CWD thus far...
I also don't believe it's just a CWD issue, like Joel said when the deer congregate and can't find that "bait" no longer they have to browse, a deer needs to store a lot of body fat to survive the harsh northern winters If the deer is forced to browse for food because the bait isn't there any longer that causes it to burn off a lot of that needed fat putting that deer at high risk for starvation or freezing to death throughout the remainder of winter.
The law is still the law, IF your state allows baiting/feeding then you're within your right to bait or feed as you wish, I personally don't have any disrespect or Ill thoughts about anyone that does it as long as it's legal in the area they do it in. I just think hunters should be aware there are risks involved when baiting or feeding deer.
The biggest concern is CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease)
YES deer naturally congregate for food but a pile of food isn't natural and deer shouldn't be concentrated into such a small feeding zone.
* Baiting and Feeding causes unnatural concentration of deer
* Disease course and symptoms indicate high potential for transmission where deer are concentrated
experts in CWD, wildlife disease and deer nutrition support bans on baiting and feeding as part of a
comprehensive strategy to prevent and/or manage CWD.
Under a baiting and feeding ban, disease outbreaks are more likely to be smaller in scale and more apt to be
contained or eliminated. With the long CWD incubation period and other factors that make discovery of a new
outbreak difficult, an outbreak that is already widespread when detected because of baiting and feeding may not be
able to be contained or eliminated.
CWD is similar to mad cow disease in cattle and
scrapie in sheep
CWD is known to infect free-ranging deer and elk in areas of Colorado, Wyoming, Nebraska, South Dakota, Utah, New Mexico, Wisconsin, Illinois, New York, West Virginia, and Saskatchewan. It has been diagnosed in deer and elk in game ranches in Colorado, Nebraska, South Dakota, Montana, Wisconsin, Oklahoma, Kansas, New York, and in the Canadian provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan
I don't think anyone wants CWD present in their Deer or Elk, So far Vermont has never had to deal with CWD (Thank God) but Vermont
and the other non-infected states are not immune to the disease...
(Vermont has strict laws on Baiting/feeding) maybe that's why we haven't been affected with CWD thus far...
I also don't believe it's just a CWD issue, like Joel said when the deer congregate and can't find that "bait" no longer they have to browse, a deer needs to store a lot of body fat to survive the harsh northern winters If the deer is forced to browse for food because the bait isn't there any longer that causes it to burn off a lot of that needed fat putting that deer at high risk for starvation or freezing to death throughout the remainder of winter.
The law is still the law, IF your state allows baiting/feeding then you're within your right to bait or feed as you wish, I personally don't have any disrespect or Ill thoughts about anyone that does it as long as it's legal in the area they do it in. I just think hunters should be aware there are risks involved when baiting or feeding deer.
thank you for explaining it a little clearer than i did bruce
I stand behind all of my posts on this subject 100%. All of us hunt for a reason. This being said it will vary from hunter to hunter. For me it is the challenge and quest for the biggest and oldest boss of the woods. This quest challenges my mind, patience, body, and cunning against the wisest critter in the woods. I cover miles of trails and hours of studying his behaviors trying to figure out how I can harvest my target buck. Most times he wins which only drives me more. I want to play the game on his terms with no baited traps.
When I went to ILL. with Ronn I was successful in my hunt but in all honesty it still will not be my most memorable because I did not do the leg work and pay my dues mentally as I have for my trophies here at home. It will always mean a lot to me because I got to share the experience with one of my best friends but will still fall short of the bucks I had the pleasure of playing cat and mouse with here at home. Will I do it again of coarse I will because of the adventure of a strange state, woods and surprise of not knowing what is going to happen or when if at all.
Baiting to me would feel like cheating in this game of life and death thus taking away from the full experience of the hunt.
We are all hunters which to me makes us family. In all families each member has different thoughts and feelings none being exactly the same as another. My feelings are mine and mine alone. Each of us must follow our own path.
PS Please don't bait on or around my hunting areas. You screw up all of my hard work and I have to start all over from scratch. LOL
When I went to ILL. with Ronn I was successful in my hunt but in all honesty it still will not be my most memorable because I did not do the leg work and pay my dues mentally as I have for my trophies here at home. It will always mean a lot to me because I got to share the experience with one of my best friends but will still fall short of the bucks I had the pleasure of playing cat and mouse with here at home. Will I do it again of coarse I will because of the adventure of a strange state, woods and surprise of not knowing what is going to happen or when if at all.
Baiting to me would feel like cheating in this game of life and death thus taking away from the full experience of the hunt.
We are all hunters which to me makes us family. In all families each member has different thoughts and feelings none being exactly the same as another. My feelings are mine and mine alone. Each of us must follow our own path.
PS Please don't bait on or around my hunting areas. You screw up all of my hard work and I have to start all over from scratch. LOL
Solid thoughts on all the posts. Pa doesn't allow baiting, Michigan has taken steps to terminate baiting, this due to the disease problems, I wish Ohio would follow suit. To those where baiting is not allowed forces one to become a better hunter. In those states that allow hunting I know tradition plays a big part in the style of hunting you do. My good hunting friend from the UP of Michigan only hunted from shacks and huge bait piles. When I brought him to PA to bow hunt naturally, he had forgot how to hunt! Now he and his dad come through every year to hunt the old fashion way and they love it. In fact my buddy said this year." its hard to go home and sit in front of a pile of bait and get excited". This is from a person who has shot over 100 deer with a bow.
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