I have to say looking at this forum as a first season hunter I'm kind of surprised by the reaction towards AR AK and SKS weapons for hunting. They are rifles, they shoot bullets, they kill targets. I really dont see what the big issue is with using them to hunt. Theyre not full auto or anything, their design is just off of the military versions.
The problem yall seem to have is the style of the weapon when what I thought it would be is the caliber of the ar15 being only a .223. Personally, saying forthwith that I have absolutley zero experience hunting, didnt figure it would be much of a problem using the AR15 to hunt.
I mean I qual expert in the US Army test and can drop sillouettes at 300 meters iron sighting it so the argument cant really be made that they arent accurate.
In the military I qualified as an Expert also and I dropped Sillhouettes at 1000 yards too.
Using AR's isn't a problem for hunting and I think everyone here will agree to that .
It's society that frowns on hunters using AR's as hunting rifles. Nobody here says you CAN'T use them to hunt with but again I think most of us here tend to agree that there are better choices to use for hunting rifles BUT you are free to use whichever you choose.
We hunters are viewed by society as everything but wildlife control agents but that's all we really are.
Do you understand what I'm trying to express? It's all about the Image of a hunter. a Hunters image is different than a Soldiers, the hunter carry's a traditional rifle, a soldier carry's the AR's. that's all it is.
where is that deer from? looks like a texas deer. neat rack. shoot what you want i've got no problem with it. there are those in texas that swear by the 22.250 for a deer gun but i wouldn't use one here in nh. thing is there are those that see that style rifle and it congers up a negative picture of hunters. right or wrong thats the way it is.
Alright I get it. Its all about the perception from non-hunters. I just wasnt getting that from posts before. My only real options of firearms outside of borrowing someone elses are military style weapons, thats why I was curious.
I would go .308 if your set on AR style rifle. I wish PA would let us use them. I have a DPMS .223 more accurate than expected. Reloading 24 grs. of Benchmark powder and 55 gr. ballistic tip nosler. Same hole all day long. Would be great for groundhog. Welcome to the world of hunting hope you have your checkbook ready, Oh yeah we live in USA creditcard ready.
Guys, lets face it. If we use the weapon the public wanted us to use it would be a water gun. The most important thing is to hunt ethically, safely and being curteous to hunters, non-hunters and land owners. Get permission before you hunt on the land. Nothing ticks off a land owner more that having someone hunting on their land without permission - even if the state laws do allow it if it is not posted. Check with your state laws regarding the type of gun you can use (including mag capacity) and caliber. There are some states that will not even allow a 243 for deer as the state angency feels it does not perform well enough for a clean kill. The problem is not the cartridge but rather bad shot placement and poor bullet selection. Personally, I do not like the 223 for anything larger than a coyote. The 308 is a great deer gun. Good luck!
Yeah, Ive looked at all the reg in this years regulations booklet and on the Texas PArks and Wildlife wedsite and there are no restrictions on caliber (other than .22), and no restrictions on magazine capacity except for hunting certain birds.
I posted a thread earlier asking what weapon i should use out of my choices which were ar15, M44 mosin, SKS, or borrow a 30-06 from my friend. It was unanimous that i should borrow his 30-06. I just have hesitation about it b/c hes also going to be using it for hunting this season and i dont know his schedule, and I am much more familiar and comfortable with my AR15 and my M44, having never fired his 30-06 before.
What about ammunition? Is there some specialty ammo out there that would allow a .223 to mushroom more effectiveley to give it more potency for deer hunting? Somebody recommend a good swift A frame bullet or something? Soft tips? Whats ya'lls take on such ammo?
I understand that you would be skeptical of the killing power of the .223.
This was my first hunt with it and I was worried for days that I would see a really big buck and not be able to kill him. I just want to report my experience that it did work very well. In fact I loaned my 7mm to my son and his deer went further after a lung shot. He did have a blood trail though. I think he used an elk load instead of a deer load and the bullet went right through. The reason I used the AR 15 instead of my 06 or 7mm was, first, I have a badly damaged back and shoulder, a light low recoil gun is much less painful. Second reason is I had 2 overseas tours using first an M14 (.308 cal) second tour in Nam, I used a M16 as well as M60. While the M14 would make a great deer rifle, I was impressed by the M16. It was very accurate easy to handle and shoot. And more effective than I thought it eould be. To me it is about being able to hunt in some comfort. This year they are legal and I wanted to try it. I am now convinced that with good shot placement, judgement and bullets it works.
Also the tactical vs hunting debate rankles me as I see it as an attempt to divide gun owners with the arguement that the only guns you should have are for hunting only. Our right to defend our life liberty and pursuit of happiness would have no meaning if we are unable to defend it with the weapons needed to do so. I see that as parity with military weapons. I don't see what you hunt with as a problem because I don't think many nonhunters know one gun from another or care. In our state they are cased and unloaded unless in the field or woods so it's a non issue here and maybe a different culture than back east. Ok I didn't mean to get on a soapbax. I'll get off now.
I don't argue with the guy who loves the satisfying thump of a scoped '06 on a crisp November day, with the heart pounding sight of a deer in the scope.
I used Black Hills 55 grain pointed soft points, FMJ are not legal for deer in Minnesota. I was very pleased with the penetration and bullet performance. You do have to be more careful with shot placement as an 06 or 7mm will penetrate
to the vitals from just about any angle. With the .223 I took a broadside shot to the lungs. I intended to hit the heart but also wanted to miss the front shoulder. That combined with he was moving and I had a small opening between trees to shoot, I shot a little behind where I wanted. The deer disappeared without a blood trail. I was pretty worried that I just wounded him but he was dead about 40 yards away.
Personally, I don't see a problem with an AR15 type of rifle as long as it meets the rules and standards set by the wildlife authorities. Most people really don't know the true definition of an assault weapon. The true definition of an assault weapon is a fully automatic weapon, but the liberal media has changed the definition to any gun they do not like because of how it looks. That is like saying a Ford Mustang with a wimpy 4 cylinder engine is a high output production race car. They would probably call my 22LR an assault weapon as it has a bull target barrel and a high power scope for gophers. If good sportsmen have an AR15 type of gun, I believe it would be good for the general public and authorities to see people using it correctly. Doing otherwise is a slipery slope. Are we going to say we can't use a Remington 700 or a Savage with an Accu-Trigger because these are used by SWAT in some locations? Are we going to abandon the 308 because it is used as a sniper round in the military and SWAT? How about its predecessor the 30-06? We all know the 223 is/was used by the military? Are we going to abandon the 9MM and 45ACP?
The vets from WW2 and Korea came back and wanted deer rifles that behaved like their beloved M1s. We got rifles like the Rem 742, BARs etc. Our current warriors whether from Viet Nam or the Gulf are very comfortable with ARs. Now that ARs are available in suitable calibers ie .308 class, or even 6.8 SPC. We should point that out to anyone that has a problem looking at ARs in the woods that these are what the Vets learned to shoot while on active duty. There is nothing wrong with these mag fed rifles, to say that they don't look right in the hunting woods feeds right into the logic of those that would ban them. Just my 2 cents....
First and formost I truly appreciate all service men and women that have or are serving in the military. I think the style of hunting rifle has faded some where the military style is slowly being accepted into the general public hunting world. Many of us feel the 223 is simply on the light side for deer for the general public. I can kill a deer with a 22 cal but is it best caliber of choise, no. I won't argue the 223 will kill a deer, I will argue that for most it will remain one of the least used calibers for deer hunting. There are simply too many better choises for deer hunting than the 223. I would look at the 243 as a step up over the 223. Hopefully your shoulder/back pain will lessen up some.
ok this is my first time reading this topic, and i read the whloe thing so im not bascing this resopnce on just one post. the way i see it is there is no reason to be hunting with a .223 unless you have a serious disability that requiers a low low recoil, or it is for your 8 year old who is just getting into hunting and again can shoot well but cant take the recoil of a larger callaber.
one thing you guys who have not served in active dutie cant even begin to immagan is the intamate relashonship between a soldier and his rifel. he carrys it 24/7, he eats with it, sleeps with it, spends hours and hours looking down rainge through its sights, sends thousands and thousands of rounds down rainge with it till it is no longer a rifle. it becomes and extention of himself. he can disasemble it including the bolt in 15 sec or less, and reassemble it just as quick. he knows it better than he knows his wife or kids. so realy i dont think him using it to hunt is a bad thing.
as for public preseption, as long as he has the land owners permition to use it, and all his other hunting practaces are ethical. i realy dout he is going to upset anyone, exept maybe someone driving by as he is entering or exiting the woods, and i would say that 90% of thoughs people are not going to notice the type of wepon. as for gaining the land owner permition if they ask what type of gun he is useing, if it is explaind that he is using it because he is x millitary, and that he was an expert, or sharp shooter in the army (or USMC) and that is why he chose that wepon i realy dout that the land owner will have a problem with it. i my self have been asked by a land owner who i was asking permition to hunt for, how good of a shot i was, if i would shoot at a running deer ect. and whan i told them that i was a sharp shooter in the army, his responce was "i dont normaly alow people to hunt my land but you can, and thanks for your srvice." i dont know rant over sorry
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