FG I'm well aware of those two models of CVA they weren't even close to TC quality. They were at best a poor man's budget compromise purchase that would allow him/her to get into the ML hunting world. Please don't tell me they were high quality rifles, my stomach is turning now. Whats the used price market value between the two? About $100.00. If I sat 10 used TC Hawkens on a table and 10 used CVA hawkens on another table and allowed ten people to choose just one, I would bet the result would be 8 TC to 2 CVA again just an opinion form a TC kind of guy!