Ithaca model 37.

[thatguy]

Barnes VOR-TX Ammunition 223 Remington 55 Grain Triple-Shock X Bullet Hollow Point Lead-Free Box of 20 - MidwayUSA, these, or these Cor-Bon DPX Hunter Ammunition 223 Remington 62 Grain Barnes Triple-Shock X Bullet Lead-Free Box of 20 - MidwayUSA . that is, ill be using them this year. last year i hunted with remington core lokts in 62GR. and like i said before, full pass throughs. and most of my target shooting is done with black hills ammuntion 36 or 40GR ballistic tips.

[WisconsinDeer]

Can't go wrong with a Barnes triple-shock X bullet. They hold up extremely well, even at .223 velocities.

[thatguy]

thats what ive heard and read. in the odd chance my father in law is using a rifle, he usually sticks to bow and muzzle loader even where rifles are legal, he uses the barnes tsx in both his .30-06 and his .243. and i guess im helping out the tree hugging hippies by "going green" and filling my freezer.

bullets for hunting aren't meant to "pass through" like arrows. bullets kill differently than arrows. arrows by hemorrhaging, cutting, and bullets by exploding the cells via massive about of energy, like shooting a milk jug full of water but on a cellular level. so you want all the energy from the bullet to be delivered into the animal not passing through.

the military uses the 223 not to kill the enemy, thats why full jacket and not a rapidly expanding bullet, but to take them out of service by wounding and therefore taking 4 others to deal with the wound and all the resources to save the soldier. so, no the 223 is not a great round for big game, unless your goal is to wound them. can the 223 kill a deer? yes but so can a 22lr.

[WisconsinDeer]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

the military uses the 223 not to kill the enemy, thats why full jacket and not a rapidly expanding bullet,

Since 1899 it's against the law according to the Geneva convention to use an expanding bullet in war. The .223 FMJ tumbles when it hits causing massive internal damage.

[thatguy]

well, i dont consider deer big game, theyre more like medium game. bear, moose, elk, thats big game. i never said the .223 is a "great" big game caliber. its just what i choose to hunt with, its what im comfortable with(not as far as recoil, ive hunted muzzle loader before), its what i trust to hunt with. if i was going after bear, id bring my .450 bushmaster(oh no, a "black gun" hide your children!) and id buy a new muzzle loader if i was going after elk or moose. and yes, the .223 does tumble causing massive tissue damage. although, that only really happens with FMJ bullets, and its not predictable either. it may enter perfect broadside in the shoulder, and then exit somewhere around the hind quarter opposite side, or go the other way. you never really know. personally, id rather have a pass through. that way you get the massive damage of and expanded bullet, and a two sided blood trail, if they decide they can still run after that. might i also add, ive never had to go more than 15M from where they were shot to find my deer? using my .223. youre not going to change my mind. im set on what im hunting with, and my state says its legal and ethical to hunt with it. so, lets get back to the ithaca, sound good?

[Hunting Man]

Getting the last word around here can be tough at times, and I don't like leaving a discussion where the subject is of interest to many members. I fully understand the legal to use a 223 cal so go for it, however, please don't try to convince us that's a great deer caliber, sorry it's not happening for me. I'll stick to (my) opinion that you need 243 type bullets to start the deer bullet sizeing and go up from there. Poachers kill with the 22 long rifle is that a great deer bullet? It kills effectively but is it right? The 223 is at best a very good varmit round but a poor choise for deer and not legal in every state. There are so many effective calibers to choose from that are vastly superior to the 223 and they're out there for a few dollars at every gun show. I like good debate as long as we do it in a respectable manner and if in the end we simply agree to disagree that's great.

[thatguy]

im not trying to change anyones mind at all. all im saying is im not changing mine either. as i said before, ive hunted succesfully with my .223 before, and i plan to do it again. ive also said im not trying to offend anyone, and i really hope i didnt, seeing how this is a fantastic forum and the short time ive been here i can already see there is a wealth of knowledge here.

do i plan to keep the .223 as my only deer rifle forever? no. i plan on buying a new muzzle loader next year, and that will become my go to gun. after that, i plan on buying either a .243 win, or a .240 weatherby mag. i know the .240 is more expensive, but if i use it for deer hunting, wont be that bad, then my .223 will go back to being my target gun again. see what im saying?

[Hunting Man]

Got you, fully understand. I should have gave you more back ground on the 223 prior posts, they weren't too in favor of using it for deer. That's where i come from also, sorry to have come off a bit heavy handed on the issue. HM

[thatguy]

no problem hunting man, i get it on the other forums im a member of. ive got thick skin, we give eachother hell at the motorpool i work at, but its the way of life in the army i guess. it will be very hard to offend me. im also pretty good at standing my ground and getting set in my ways. i knew from day one it wasnt the perfect deer rifle, and actually it wasnt meant to be either. but at one point(when i first got my muzzle loader that i gave away) i hadnt worked up a good enough load for it, and my father in law wanted me to go hunting, so i grabbed my .223 and off we went. and ive already said everything else about it, no need to repeat myself.