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Old 01-21-2009, 08:09 AM
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Here's a quote from Remington's chart.

Remington Shotshell Ballistics -Slug Load
~ ~ ~
PREMIER® CORE-LOKT® ULTRA BONDED SABOT SLUGS
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Velocity (ft/sec) Energy (ft-lbs)
IndexNo. Ga. ~ ~ Shell Length Slug Wt. Muzzle ~ ~ ~ 50yd ~ ~100yd
PR12CLU 12ga. ~ ~ ~2 3/4" ~ ~385-gr 1900/1770 1648/3086 2682/2325
~
PR20CLU 20ga. ~ ~ ~2 3/4" ~ ~260-gr 1900/1750 1615/2084 1774/1506


Index No.....Muzzle 25yd...50yd...75yd...100yd...125yd...150yd
50-yd Zero
PR12CLU.......-1.5.....-0.4....Zero....-0.3......-1.3.......-3.1.......--
PR20CLU.......-1.5.....-0.4....Zero....-0.3......-1.3.......-3.2.......--


150-yd Zero
PR12CLU.......-1.5......--.......+1.8.......--.......+2.4.........--........Zero
PR20CLU.......-1.5......--.......+2.0.......--.......+2.7.........--........Zero
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Old 01-21-2009, 08:17 AM
wmi wmi is offline
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This particular subject is a sore spot with me right now because of an issue happening right now in my state. Thanks to one man who SLUNG a sabot slug at a deer over 200 yards his stray round went through the front window of a day care center 275 yards away. Nobody was hurt however tonight I am going to a hearing with hundreds of other hunters because the anti's have started a bill to change the current laws regarding safety zones for ALL hunting weapons. Currently we have to maintain 150 yards from dwellings. The new law would change that to 300 yards and/or maximum range of your weapon. All weapons would have to be used only from an elevated treestands and NO hunting on properties less than 10 acres. This yahoo is responsible for possibly ELIMINATING hunting all together for about 40% of lands in surrounding areas of the Washington/Baltimore areas as well as many other areas of the state. Most farms here are less than 100 acres so with these new regs that could possibly pass and thinking of barns and such even these farms would be illegal to hunt. Now this would effect everyone from waterfowlers to squirrel hunters to deer hunters and on. This is a RED HOT topic here that has got the whole state of hunters in an uproar. All of this because of one idiot. Think of it MILLIONS of rounds fired every year here during hunting seasons and one accident like this and the hole it left poured hundreds of PETA and anti hunting morons. Don't think for one moment it could not happen in your home state as well. We cannot just flower and perfume subjects like this. There is no gray areas anymore. Our hunting rights are under attack and it is up to us to teach as well as enforce GOOD hunting ethics.
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:45 AM
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got that alert from the sportmans association.you must be in maryland.GIVE IT TO EM GOOD at that meating
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Genesis 27:3 "The thinking deer hunter should mature through three phases during his hunting life. First phase, "I need to kill a deer." Second phase, I want to harvest a nice deer. And last phase, we must manage this resource so our children and their children can experience the grand tradition of good deer hunting." - Jim Slinsky
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:54 AM
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according to the Facts your hunting rights aren't under attack at all, It looks to me like the state is trying to negotiate safer hunting not eliminate it.

This wasn't an isolated incident for Md. The Daycare shooting was the second incident that took place during this years hunting, On Nov. 29, two bullets hit a home near Williamsport, resulting in negligent hunting. charges against Rodney Harne, 19, of Williamsport. One bullet entered the home through a window and the other broke a garage window. Harne was also more than 150 yards from the home, police say.
No one was hurt in either incident.


I know how you feel wmi but how do you and the other hunters expect to argue it when your own (Paul Peditto, director of the DNR's Wildlife and Heritage Service.) is encouraging a ban.

Peditto said Tuesday that rather than seeking a change in state law, county officials should first consider banning firearm discharges in areas where development has made hunting with guns inappropriate.

"We're willing to continue working with the counties regarding their concerns raised by these unfortunate circumstances, but because both of these individuals have been charged with negligent hunting, it does beg the question whether changing the words in the law book would change the outcome and/or the behavior," Peditto said.


Montgomery County – On Friday, Jan. 9, the Maryland Natural Resources Police charged a Germantown man with natural resources and criminal violations. The charges are the result of an investigation that started in Sept. of 2008.

Paul K. Howell Jr., 18, of Germantown was charged with shooting on, from, or across a roadway; nighttime hunting; hunting within a safety zone; reckless endangerment; malicious destruction of property; and violating a Montgomery County weapons ordinance.

The incident started on Saturday, Sept. 27, 2008 after NRP received a report of an individual finding a hunting arrow inside his Spring Meadows Drive residence. The arrow had entered the residence through the front window and landed on a sofa inside the house. Montgomery County Police took the initial report.

A court date of Feb. 26 has been scheduled for Howell in Montgomery County District Court.

Queen Anne’s County – On Thursday, Jan. 1, at 9 a.m., the Maryland Natural Resources Police charged four individuals with exceeding the daily bag limit of Canada geese on private property near Crumpton.

Christopher W. Figiel, 50, of Millington, Harry J. Langley, 65, of Preston, Brice E. Haddaway, 19 and Kyle J. Sadowski, 18, both of Chester were charged after NRP observed the men allegedly shoot eleven geese from a blind near the intersection of Routes 290 and 544.

The daily bag limit for Canada geese is two geese per person per day. During the incident, NRP seized as evidence, three Canada geese. A court date of Feb. 11 has been scheduled for the individuals in Queen Anne’s County District Court.





You guys are in a tough situation down there in Md. It sounds like you have a whole heap of YAHOOS "UnderEdumucated" Trust Me I'd be the first person to jump onto the battle wagon where bans on hunting areas become a concern but when the area isn't a safe area to discharge a weapon It's kind of hard to argue the issue, I would give up the area rather than risk further accidents BUT I would definately fight for the area's where the ban wouldn't be necessary.

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Old 01-21-2009, 11:01 AM
Hunting Man Hunting Man is offline
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In my responce to this distance question, I assumed the lack of knowledge of ethical shot distances was due to a lack of hunting experience and therefor tempered my responce accordingly. The origional topic included both slug and bow distance questions/statements that were flawed. Accidents are happening all over the country by hunters shooting various equipment and will continue. Violators have always been a problem. These issues will be magnified just because of the new president and the controlling political party. I hope that true hunters can form a strong political front and stop the democratic tide of anti guns/hunting. Hunters need to clean up their own acts and stop contributing to the problem!
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:11 PM
wmi wmi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceBruce1959 View Post
according to the Facts your hunting rights aren't under attack at all, It looks to me like the state is trying to negotiate safer hunting not eliminate it.

This wasn't an isolated incident for Md. The Daycare shooting was the second incident that took place during this years hunting, On Nov. 29, two bullets hit a home near Williamsport, resulting in negligent hunting. charges against Rodney Harne, 19, of Williamsport. One bullet entered the home through a window and the other broke a garage window. Harne was also more than 150 yards from the home, police say.
No one was hurt in either incident.

I know how you feel wmi but how do you and the other hunters expect to argue it when your own (Paul Peditto, director of the DNR's Wildlife and Heritage Service.) is encouraging a ban.

Peditto said Tuesday that rather than seeking a change in state law, county officials should first consider banning firearm discharges in areas where development has made hunting with guns inappropriate.

"We're willing to continue working with the counties regarding their concerns raised by these unfortunate circumstances, but because both of these individuals have been charged with negligent hunting, it does beg the question whether changing the words in the law book would change the outcome and/or the behavior," Peditto said.

Montgomery County – On Friday, Jan. 9, the Maryland Natural Resources Police charged a Germantown man with natural resources and criminal violations. The charges are the result of an investigation that started in Sept. of 2008.

Paul K. Howell Jr., 18, of Germantown was charged with shooting on, from, or across a roadway; nighttime hunting; hunting within a safety zone; reckless endangerment; malicious destruction of property; and violating a Montgomery County weapons ordinance.

The incident started on Saturday, Sept. 27, 2008 after NRP received a report of an individual finding a hunting arrow inside his Spring Meadows Drive residence. The arrow had entered the residence through the front window and landed on a sofa inside the house. Montgomery County Police took the initial report.

A court date of Feb. 26 has been scheduled for Howell in Montgomery County District Court.

Queen Anne’s County – On Thursday, Jan. 1, at 9 a.m., the Maryland Natural Resources Police charged four individuals with exceeding the daily bag limit of Canada geese on private property near Crumpton.

Christopher W. Figiel, 50, of Millington, Harry J. Langley, 65, of Preston, Brice E. Haddaway, 19 and Kyle J. Sadowski, 18, both of Chester were charged after NRP observed the men allegedly shoot eleven geese from a blind near the intersection of Routes 290 and 544.

The daily bag limit for Canada geese is two geese per person per day. During the incident, NRP seized as evidence, three Canada geese. A court date of Feb. 11 has been scheduled for the individuals in Queen Anne’s County District Court.




You guys are in a tough situation down there in Md. It sounds like you have a whole heap of YAHOOS "UnderEdumucated" Trust Me I'd be the first person to jump onto the battle wagon where bans on hunting areas become a concern but when the area isn't a safe area to discharge a weapon It's kind of hard to argue the issue, I would give up the area rather than risk further accidents BUT I would definately fight for the area's where the ban wouldn't be necessary.
Bruce I have read the FACTS AND YES THEY ARE! Have already been to 4 meetings on this and it is only getting worse. The Williamport deal was just a bunch of punks acting like punks. They were not hunting but the anti's have placed them amongst the hunters. Williamport is in the sticks compared to the rest of the state. In our state it is a numbers game. We have so many hunters in such a relative small area a few and I mean VERY few problems have happened. Keep in mind how many hunters versus how many issues and you will find we are probably one of the safest states around. The biggest problem is all of the librals,Anti's, and PETA people we have here making even one thing into everyone is going to die from a hunter in their own living room. They are trying to make it sound as if it is all just for safety. Well that is BS. If safety was the issue they would have banned automobiles decades ago here in this state with all the Kamikazes we have on our roads. The point is if you place MILLIONS of people in a small area you are going to have a few jackasses so what do you do penalize a half a million hunters because of 3 or 4 morons? Bottom line is they are looking for any hole they can slither through to take away our hunting rights. I should as a very good friend of mine stated "Hunting is not a right but a privilege therefore it can be taken away". Bruce have you been to Maryland? If so and if this bill would pass tell me where you would be able to hunt. How many other states would fall into this situation? Tell you what they are already targeting states such as NY,NJ,PA,ILL,FLA,VA,CA,MI,RI,DEL,etc...-----MANY MORE. All these doors have been opened over things just like this starting topic. To everyone here on this board you better pay attention to what happens here because if it passes as written they will be coming to your state too. This is your wake up call and you better not press the snooze button or you will be too late. This whole thing is like a ladder, if they get hold of the bottom they can control its entire balance. Now with that said we are on Washington's front door. Hello is anyone listening?
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:14 PM
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Well said Hunting Man. Folks we need to realize hunting is not a "right" but a privilage, that can be taken away or put out of reach for mopst of us. As to the question of slug guns, I bought my youngest son an 870 turkey special years ago. When time came for him to move up from squirrels and rabbits to deer, I bought him a rifled choke tube and a side mount scope bracket. He shot sabotted slugs, Federals and Lightfields I believe. To this day that's the most accurate "off the shelf" slug gun I've ever seen. He could consistantly get 3" groups @ 125yds. This may be the exception rather than the rule, but I still wouldn't try shooting at game out to 175 - 200 yds with it. We don't need to confuse slug guns with rifle ranges unless the gun is designed for it, and even at that, manufacturers always present their products at the very best they will be able to perform.
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:53 PM
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wmi I really do understand your anger but the sad fact is you DO have idiots down there causing all these problems for the hunters, maybe they weren't hunted related incidents which doesn't matter anyway, What matters are the Bullets fired into a daycare & someones home and garage...
What if it was your home, or what if your kids were in that daycare? you'd be taking a different approach to this I'm sure.

I know you'll agree something has to be done to make those areas safer just because YOU might be the safer hunter and may not be the one sending a bullet into a daycare or a house BUT can you guarantee others won't? NO of course you can't Dude I'm not trying to argue with you over this I'm trying to help you rationalize the situation.
Your anger is causing you to see one side and one side only.

YES I have been to Maryland, I lived there WAY back in the early 80's, at a little ole' military installation called, Aberdeen proving ground and I'm no expert to the open hunting lands available now but if there are areas that put people in danger due to hunting than you and other hunters should do what it takes to help maintain those areas as safe as possible.

And you can't compare automobile accidents to accidents with weapons, there's just no comparison.

If you think the daycare issue is an area that shouldn't be tampered with because it's not a safety isse than what you should do is get all the "Other" incident facts regarding the daycare to show "Other" dangers to the daycare and not just weapons. You can't go in there screaming "Rights or automobiles or idiot gun owners" and expect to be heard.
I wish I were there to help, I consider myself to be pretty level headed and understanding, I think those are important qualities during a town meeting.

And I agree with you too southern man, just because an ammunitions manufacturer says it will do this or that, doesn't mean it should be practiced by everyone, not everyone can perform so well
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Old 01-21-2009, 01:41 PM
wmi wmi is offline
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No I don't agree. I believe in full prosecution of the guilty not condemning of the innocent. There is no difference between cars, guns,sticks or stones. Dead is dead and injury is injury. Therefore an accident is an accident. One is always found at fault and the other is not found guilty of being on the road.
In this case regarding the bill like all of the other crap our congress passes it has a lot of garbage that has nothing to do with the main issue. How could you view Maryland with waterfowling practically eliminated. Here it is a tradition of many generations. This bill is the first step in banning fire arms in this state. This is the intention and is well known behind the scenes. Have you heard of ripple affect? Well they are headed your way too. Having your opinion here would be the kiss of death to my 2nd amendment rights and hunting privileges. Anger is what politicians listen too. They are listening to the whining liberals and anti's aren't they? I for one am not standing on the sidelines waiting to see what happens. The NRA and SCI along with the Congressional Sportsman is here to fight it as well. I will side with them thank you.

Last edited by wmi; 01-21-2009 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:39 PM
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Im gonna have to side with wmi on this one they are setting up unrealistic shooting parameters that will make most places un-hunt able.This is something that other states can /will adopt easily.Accidents happen and when they do its a shame but to jump on BAN wagon no pun intended you need to remove emotion from the argument.A person got shot in NY now they want to take away rifles from that zone.what's next the slug guns?
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Genesis 27:3 "The thinking deer hunter should mature through three phases during his hunting life. First phase, "I need to kill a deer." Second phase, I want to harvest a nice deer. And last phase, we must manage this resource so our children and their children can experience the grand tradition of good deer hunting." - Jim Slinsky
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