Trying to decide on which calibers. - Page 2 - Deer Hunting Forums

Go Back   Deer Hunting Forums > General Forums > Rifle Hunting
Rifle Hunting Discuss Rifle Season topics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2011, 07:22 AM
turner's Avatar
turner turner is offline
B&C 140 Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tn
Posts: 501
Default real numbers

Here are the REAL numbers:

30/06 with 180gr bullet @ 2700 FPS = 18.5 lbs of recoil

.358 Win with 200gr bullet @ 2490 (mild factory loading) = 19.7 lbs of recoil

.358 Win with 200gr bullet @ 2675 (hot Doubletap load) = 22 lbs of recoil

45-70 with 300gr bullet @ 1800 (load I mentioned) = 21.5 lbs of recoil

45-70 with 405gr bullet @ 1330 (load I mentioned) = 18 lbs of recoil

45-70 with 350gr bullet @ 1900 = 32.2 lbs of recoil (similar to a load I said would recoil "stoutly")

These numbers pulled from the chart below. All are in similar rifles; that is rifles all weighing 8.5 pounds. The 45-70, with standard factory 405gr loads does not recoil any stiffer than a standard 30/06 180gr load. It has less felt recoil in 405gr form than a .358 factory load and far less than any hot .358 handloaded loads.

Sir, my argument stands as originally stated. These numbers completely backing my original statements. It's falsehoods as you have perpetrated that keep folks from using or trying a grand old cartridge, the 45-70. Perhaps you should re-read my original posting.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/subscriber..._table_exp.htm

Last edited by turner; 12-13-2011 at 07:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2011, 12:53 PM
turner's Avatar
turner turner is offline
B&C 140 Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tn
Posts: 501
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CircuitRider View Post
Chuck hawks chart is not using the velocities I used which came from my chronographed loads. Your point about the 358win and the 45/70 on recoil is still wrong. Once again, a black bear is not hard to kill, and a 45/70 is really to much for the rifle he has in mind unless he likes being punished and if he shoots a Garret load in that single action he won't forget the recoil. I still do not agree with your point in your posts at all. So lets agree to disagree, and as far as I am concerned this discussion has ended. Have a great day and good hunting season.
Here are the lines right out of the recoil table, these are factory loads:

cartridge//rifle weight//recoil//recoil velocity

.30-06 Spfd. (180 at 2700)//8.5//18.5//11.8

358 Win. (200 at 2490)8.5//19.7//12.2

.45-70 (405 at 1330)8.5//18.0//11.7

Last edited by turner; 12-13-2011 at 08:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2011, 03:03 PM
Hunting Man Hunting Man is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Oregon, Ohio
Posts: 7,642
Default

I think when all is said and done, giving advise should be based more on the consumer needs than our personal likes and dislikes. The point I'm trying to make: I am one who truly enjoys the old stuff, those rifle/calibers that have fallen by the wayside but fully capable of taking anything out there, however, If you really want to give a new person advise that will fit their immediate needs in the best way, then I think we have to separate our pet rifles and vintage caliber combo's and instead forward information that will give the questioning party revelant information that will be used to purchase a firearm that most closely matches their needs. While the 45-70 and 358 are great they do carry that old time flavor and are falling off the radar for sales. Understand these are two that I would consider for myself however, never would I try to sell a new/youth buyer to either one of these. This is the reason for my 270 win suggestion as it is still highly popular, ammo is still affordable, can be found in any store, and will take just about all game, excluding African big game and America's big bears. So I suspose I've hurt some feelings here, slow down and re-read my post and reason for steering him to the 270 win. I can think of several others that would fit but he gave us a small list to discuss and I think the 270 gives him the most caliber for his needs with the rifle he is purchasing. The 270 win is not my favorite bullet, but you can't argue it's popularity and history. My advise/opinion for what it's worth????
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2011, 03:35 PM
Karl.Luhr Karl.Luhr is offline
B&C 140 Class
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 677
Default I was wondering if it was time for a Jello duel...

Reading the posts flying back and forth I was very happy that you guys were not in the same State. You two both have forgot more than I will ever know about this shooting/hunting stuff. Just remember we are on the same side and I know that either of you would help drag that big monster Buck out of the woods if the other one shot it. If you guys still need to settle it I recommend that you drive up to Minnesota. I will make up a big batch of Jello and you can settle this dispute at high noon range 10 feet.
I would like to meet you both anyway......

Karl
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2011, 08:27 PM
turner's Avatar
turner turner is offline
B&C 140 Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tn
Posts: 501
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CircuitRider View Post
Those are not the only factory loads especially for the 45/70

Buffalo bore, Garrett, and other specialty companies for the 45/70, and Double Tap ammo for the the 358Win. There is so much you don't know and miss in your assumptions and biased data to hopefully fit your conclusions. How many black bear have you killed and have you ever killed a grizz with an 06? Look, lets please let this go, I refuse to continue and this is my last post on this tread. If you want the last word you can have it.
Here's exactly what I know Jack. You lie and change numbers to meet your wants. You're a fake, a liar and an piece of ****. I used, as I said from the first post, numbers from well known places. You?? You used numbers from your, Well, I have no idea where they came from. Your dreams? your wants? Something to make you seem smart?? Well, look at the facts and freakin' grow up.

Last edited by turner; 12-13-2011 at 08:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2011, 10:37 PM
DVW DVW is offline
B&C 120 Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 215
Default

Well thank you all for your opinions and thoughts. I didn't mean for this to become what it has, but there has been some helpful input from everyone.

I think that I will go with the .270 for now. It was my first choice for long range and bear. If it is a common enough round that I won't have trouble finding the ammo that I want, then I feel it would be the best choice for me. The reason that I questioned it in the first place is that my friend has used a .270 for years that his dad gave him as a gift. He expressed to me that he would rather have a 30-06 due to the greater options of rounds but he didn't want to hurt his dad's feelings.

For short range, I will just hold off for now and give it some more thought. I can always buy the second barrel later. If I don't decide before next season, I will just keep borrowing my son's .243. It would be nice for us both to have our own rifle though. I still feel that a .270 is overkill for a whitetail at 50-75 yards since the .243 has been doing such a good job. I would simply prefer a larger diameter bullet. I really like how my .50 caliber muzzle loader performed with 90 grains of black powder at that range. I was looking for something with similar performance and characteristics out of a cartridge (big hole, slow speed).

Again thank you all and I will post a picture of it after it is in my possession.

DVW
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2011, 06:09 AM
Hunting Man Hunting Man is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Oregon, Ohio
Posts: 7,642
Default

Good thing you came to a conclusion as things were ready to explode, whew! Never thought buying a new gun would be so exciting.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2011, 01:27 PM
gfdeputy2's Avatar
gfdeputy2 gfdeputy2 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,802
Default

HM great posts
DVM the .270 is a great choice for the first barrel you may find you won't need a second barrel depending on what you decide to hunt
it is true there are more choices in the .30-06 because it just took a lot to get it right reason why the .270 has less
YES IM ONLY KIDDING geeze do not want to start another war
commonly you can find 130gr & 150 gr in the .270 I use the 130gr in my .270 mostly
by the way do they still make a .45-70 or the .358 I thought they went out before HM's time
MAN again I could not help myself
__________________
Remember when posting what may seem innocent to you may not to others,
text shows NO emotions so please,,, don't take it personal & automatically go on the defense.
Take it w/ a grain of salt, take it as a joke or just let it go.

"If George Washington was asked for his I.D. do you think he just wipped out a quarter?"
Steven Wright
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2011, 01:46 PM
Hunting Man Hunting Man is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Oregon, Ohio
Posts: 7,642
Default

I also like the 140 gr in 270 win. Also, George Custer and I grew up close to each other, he in Monroe Mich and I here in Toledo. I told him not to head west!
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2011, 01:50 PM
gfdeputy2's Avatar
gfdeputy2 gfdeputy2 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,802
Default

thats funny HM
If I start getting stupid just tell me to shut up
must be the Nyquil talking
__________________
Remember when posting what may seem innocent to you may not to others,
text shows NO emotions so please,,, don't take it personal & automatically go on the defense.
Take it w/ a grain of salt, take it as a joke or just let it go.

"If George Washington was asked for his I.D. do you think he just wipped out a quarter?"
Steven Wright
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Top Posters
Hunting Man7642
buckfever5650
BruceBruce19595402
timberghost3909
joel the signman3608
tator3169
gfdeputy22802
delbert1494
Buckshot1219
hunt NH1203
Photos
Illinois Trophy Whitetails Photos
trophyhunter1
Illinois Trophy Whitetails Photos
Team DHC Articles


    All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:40 AM.



    LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC8