tell me what you think

[sdwolfden]

Here in the Black hills of South Dakota our big game tags are determined by a draw. The Game Fish and Parks(GFP) department for the state are in my opinion, managing the Black Hills deer herds with 1950's mentality. Due to a taxidermist and some lazy hunters sending in a petition to the GFP stating that mountain lions are decimating the deer and elk herds, the number of deer and elk tags have been decreased for the 2nd year in a row, and the mountain lion tags have been increased. I know they are lazy hunters because thay drive around along the forestry roads and look for something to shoot instead of getting into the woods and sitting. Then they complain that they haven't seen any deer. I have written to the papers and the state myself and I have heard of a few other "true sportsman" hunters writing to them too. I stated that "If those so-called "hunters would get out of their vehicles and get into the woods, then they would see the game. I sit in the woods and have seen many deer and elk(including a 6x7 bull elk that was 30 yards away from me and stood there 5 minutes), but what I don't see in the woods are other hunters". In the 6 years we have been hunting this area, we have had many hunters drive their trucks in front of where we are sitting but have only seen 1 other hunter out of his vehicle. GFP doesn't seem to care that shooting a deer from a vehicle or on a forestry road is as stated in the rules-ILLEGAL. All I can do is preserve my integrity as a true sportman. I would like some other hunters to tell me what they think.

i think you dealing with 2 separate issues. one the road hunters. it is what it is and i doubt it will ever change, sadly. the second is the number of tags issued. now to that i would leave to the state's biologist to determine how many of what needs to be taken. if they are doing a poor job, relying on erroneous info, then they need to be removed from their jobs.

[Hunting Man]

First If I'm seeing road hunters then I'm not far enough back in! Second, with-in the laws I'd start shooting some big cats. Third, I hunt mostly PA and they are very slow to change course when an adopted managing plan has gone bad. I too would continue to put pressure on those who control the wildlife quotos and set the tags limits. The bad news is with our current administration in Washington, things will only get worse. It is a good thing you are involved, maybe a little more noise in the right areas will start the changes.

[BruceBruce1959]

I'm not familiar with the South Dakota harvest statistics but most states do a fairly good job establishing/setting harvest limits based on harvest data.
Sometimes it seems like the states are working against the hunters but in the long run the states usually create better or at least improved hunting conditions but that isn't always the case and when too many hunters find fault then it becomes necessary to approach the State officials with their concerns.

As far as the activities from the Illegal road hunters I think it's safe to say "it's a problem in every state not just a certain few", The best we can do is maintain good hunting ethics, follow the hunting/fishing laws of the land and hope justice is served on those who fail to comply.

Good Luck & Happy safe hunting always!

[ideafrog]

SDWolfDen - as a fellow South Dakota Hunter, it is unfortunate that your encounters with other hunters in the state have been so poor. Please understand that there ARE dedicated hunters out there - not just haphazard killers. Some of us do enjoy the challenge of hearing the deer walking toward us and engaging it on its turf...not just shooting it through the exhaust of our pickups. Hang in there....the more you get out and talk hunting with folks the more actual true hunters you will find.
As far BruceBruce's comment on harvest data - check out this site we found...they have the latest harvest reports online.
South Dakota Hunting Reports | Statistics Information and Harvest Reports

Perhaps also check out their Big Buck contest - we've attended for years, and know that many of the Northern Hills most dedicated hunters attend.

[sdwolfden]

The problem with SDGFP is that they send out surveys to some but not all hunters to get stats for their harvest reports. If they don't get stats from all hunters, the true results will never be known. They sated in the Rapid City Journal that the mountain lions took as many deer as the hunters did last year. How can they know this? They decreased the deer tags again and increased the mountain lion tags and also increased the total kill for mountain lions above what was recommended. I personally think and a lot of other hunters agree with me that if you have a large prey population, then you will attract more predators. So If you decrease the prey population, the Numbers of predators will decrease also. But South Dakota has a history of eradicating animals so that more human habitat can be settled.

Originally Posted by sdwolfden

The problem with SDGFP is that they send out surveys to some but not all hunters to get stats for their harvest reports. If they don't get stats from all hunters, the true results will never be known. They sated in the Rapid City Journal that the mountain lions took as many deer as the hunters did last year. How can they know this? They decreased the deer tags again and increased the mountain lion tags and also increased the total kill for mountain lions above what was recommended. I personally think and a lot of other hunters agree with me that if you have a large prey population, then you will attract more predators. So If you decrease the prey population, the Numbers of predators will decrease also. But South Dakota has a history of eradicating animals so that more human habitat can be settled.

i disagree with your rationalization.

if the predator numbers are up and you kill off their natural prey they don't just starve to death or relocate. they start finding and eating other prey. sheep, house dogs, house cats, calves, colts. i imagine some starve but thats not a pleasant thought, rather have them shot.

the state knows how many tags were sold and the number of deer checked in plus they do in the field counts and track all the info. they use the weather history for estimates on winter kill. all sorts of things car vs deer reports to get a feel for what is happening out there.

i don't think you are giving the biologist, those that choose to make wildlife management their lifes work, the credit they probably deserve.

[sdwolfden]

Originally Posted by ronn

i disagree with your rationalization.

if the predator numbers are up and you kill off their natural prey they don't just starve to death or relocate. they start finding and eating other prey. sheep, house dogs, house cats, calves, colts. i imagine some starve but thats not a pleasant thought, rather have them shot.

the state knows how many tags were sold and the number of deer checked in plus they do in the field counts and track all the info. they use the weather history for estimates on winter kill. all sorts of things car vs deer reports to get a feel for what is happening out there.

i don't think you are giving the biologist, those that choose to make wildlife management their lifes work, the credit they probably deserve.

Here in South Dakota, deer are not checked in when they are shot. I know they do it in other states like Wisconsin, where you have to go to a station and check them in and they check to see if the right tag as used. When you shoot a deer here, you apply your tag and take it home and butcher the deer. There is no check in and no way for the GFP to know how many deer are harvested. Believe me, I would prefer to have a check in system so that accurate counts are taken. Also, just because the tags are sold does not mean that they will be filled. I have gone previous years when there were leftover tags and had 3 or 4 tags and not filled all of them.

[sdwolfden]

Originally Posted by Hunting Man

First If I'm seeing road hunters then I'm not far enough back in! Second, with-in the laws I'd start shooting some big cats. Third, I hunt mostly PA and they are very slow to change course when an adopted managing plan has gone bad. I too would continue to put pressure on those who control the wildlife quotos and set the tags limits. The bad news is with our current administration in Washington, things will only get worse. It is a good thing you are involved, maybe a little more noise in the right areas will start the changes.

There are laws here that you can only use motor vehicles on marked and numbered roads. Where I am seeing them is on unmarked roads and trails. Reporting them and poachers does no good here because the authorities do nothing. I have called and reported many times and they treat me like I'm in the wrong for reporting violations.

without a check in it sure makes it hard to keep a count. weird