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BruceBruce1959 12-21-2007 06:11 AM

Is Trophy Scoring Fair?
It upsets me to think that many hunters, (mostly the self proclaimed "Professionals") go and pay to hunt for animals, mostly Whitetail Deer at some Outfitters that's been raising and feeding deer specifically for massive antler development and THEN,
has the nerve to SCORE those deer for B&C or P&Y entries. How Sickening is that?
Shouldn't B&C or P&Y be strictly for animals that have been hunted by fair chase?
ANYBODY can go and BUY an Outfitter raised Deer BUT unless it's been harvested from the great Wild of Outdoors and not from caged or fenced in properties, It should have no place in B&C or P&Y and Hunters should start making demands to have those entries removed or Create other categories for those type of Entries,
Like ("B&D", Bought Deer) or the one I see as most fitting a category called ("P&P", Professionally Purchased)
The self proclaimed pro's should lower their heads in shame for entering outfitter raised Animals into either of those Registers, You would think by now a "PRO" would know the difference's between a real Trophy and a PRIZE. How's everyone else feel about this?

joel the signman 12-21-2007 07:49 AM

i know that that calling picking out a deer and paying to shoot it is nothing more than shopping.It sure aint hunting..sure some people don't have the time to hunt for a trophy but those same people should be happy just being out there.thats the way it goes sometimes(most times) you don't get anything .I agree with ya bruce that's not what the record books guys meant when they started.maybe a separate category is needed or an asterisk next to the name.sound familiar .just like the baseball guys.i think this is a problem in the way Americans think bigger is better and the being famous is so important.some people will do anything to be in the books they take short cuts(steroids) to avoid years of sweat and hard work..oh well i'll get down off my soap box

onehorse 12-21-2007 08:47 AM

Bruce, I agree with you on that, but I thought that the B&C book and SCI book required that the game is taken by fair case methods. Of course, people could and I guess do, lie about where they got the animal.
Here in Montana, we had elk farms where "hunters" could pick out an elk to shoot. A few years back we, hunters and non-hunters, decided to ban them, and that's just what we did with a referendum and vote which made it illegal.
The trouble is many (most?) hunters get so caught up in the ego and competition factors that the actual hunting becomes a secondary issue. The result is all sorts of cheating - buying heads, stealing heads, poaching, you name it. Maybe it would be better if there were NO record books. Really, what's the point?
Seems to me that the honor should go to the animal, anyway, and not the hunter. How about a record book that lists the animal, but doesn't name the hunter. THAT would separate the real hunters from the guys with big heads and little "you-know-whats".

pdstan512 12-21-2007 09:23 AM

well , I really see what your sayin but, that deer tthat my little brother shot was taken on a high fence ranch but we didnt Pick it out and one of our friends is possobly going to buy that ranch and said we could hunt on it, but really the deer was taken in fair chase, because really we were not gaurantied that deer or well we had never seen it before, but it was taken on a high fence but the guy has one of those elk farms and has axis and black buck, on their and isnt doing anything with steriods or drugs to the deer to make them big but he really is just making the genetics there good by years of shooting the more smaller and bad geneticid bucks, is that bad in your oppinion? or do you mean like the ones who have pics of deer for you to choose and charge you 5000 for one or 10000 for another?
and the person who might buy it said it would be cool to have some elk on there but not really alot maby 5 bulls and 10 cows and only let family or really close friends shoot those, and im gonna kind of change the subject of him onto my oppinion of why some people do shoot elk of of elk farms, Instead of "shopping" for an elk for 8000 you could most likly go to colorado for 4000 and go up on horseback and have an great adventure, for half the price but if some people never got the chance to do that when their body could and when they were fit and young enough but now they are older less fit to do that they could go shoot an elk with out putting they body and health at risk and go "shopping" for one, now im not saying thats good to do but i think its ok if you are older and less fit but they can score it to see how big itis but the shouldnt enter it in any competiotions. so tell me what you think about please

onehorse 12-21-2007 09:43 AM

pdsatn makes some good points. There are fences and then there are FENCES. I've never hunted those big deer management ranches in Texas, but my understanding is that even though they are fenced, some of them are thousands of acres. Of course, any place that guarantees an animal or has a no-kill-no-pay policy has to be suspect. There's no way anyone could guarantee a really wild, free-roaming animal and still stay in business.
As an older hunter with less legs and lungs than in the past, the idea of an easier hunt has some appeal. After all, I believe I've paid my dues during many days (and years) in freezing cold, snow and rain, etc. But even so, I think I'd still prefer fair chase hunting. However, I would welcome a setup where a certain state hunting district (NO FENCES PLEASE) would be reserved for us older guys just to cut down on the traffic and give us an equal opportunity. On the other hand, I like hunting with you young guys, so you can drag my animals for me... just kidding!
For you young and older hunters alike, if you are pondering the meaning of ethical hunting (and you SHOULD be), please get yourself a copy of Jim Posewitz's book, Beyond Fair Chase. You can get it in paperback for about 7 bucks at

pdstan512 12-21-2007 09:46 AM

lol yeah I under stand you the guy who owns that ranch right now we payed him for 5 days and we could shoot 1 Trophy 1 management and 2 does but we only got the trophy and one doe so i think that was fair chase

Berk 12-21-2007 11:58 AM

I know that boone and crocket wont take an animal that was shot in a high fence area and im pretty sure pope and young wont either. here in ohio we have a club called the buckey big buck club and they wont take them either,and shouldnt in my opinion. shooting an animal raised in a pen is a no brainer. as far as high fences go,you can control the genetics,the rut by culling does,body size with supplementel feeding and patterns with food plots. now dont get me wrong im not against high fence hunting but its not the same as nonfence and is fairer but not the same as fairchase. in my opinion.

BruceBruce1959 12-21-2007 12:11 PM

you're looking past the point I'm making. I'm talking about "Antler Scoring" ...
I know there's always going to be outfitters offering "hunts for money" BUT the point I'm expressing is,
those animals should not be allowed into B&C or P&Y registers, that's all I'm saying But If a hunter wants to do a pay for hunt that's fine,
but if he gets a Trophy Scoring Buck while on that paid hunt, it shouldn't be allowed into P&Y or B&C. that's the point I'm making.
I hope this gives a clearer understanding on the point I'm making.

Berk 12-21-2007 12:39 PM

as said at the top of my post BOON AND CROCKET wont accept these animals and im pretty sure POPEANDYOUNG wont either.

onehorse 12-21-2007 12:49 PM

Ok, Bruce, let me see if I get your point now. It's that hunters who get an official trophy while using a guide or any "paid for" set up should not be able to enter them in the Book. Is that it?

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