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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2011, 08:15 AM
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tomlightfield tomlightfield is offline
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HM, I never realized how important the correct primer is for a particular app. until I started my "muzzleloading sabbatical" years ago. Until then I figured a primer was a primer, but wow, what a mistake! When I decided I wanted to get a black powder gun, I had no one to "help" steer me around, so I did just what I always did, dove right in to the big ML pond and started experimenting. After about a metric ton of different bullets, primers and powders, I finally got my gun to shoot about a 5" group at 100yds, and back then not knowing how super accurate a ml could be, figured that was pretty good. Then I read somewhere about 777 primers, and I was using 777 pellets at the time. So I went and got some of them, shot my gun with them, and low and behold my "good" 5" group went to 1" or sometimes a hair less. What an awakening!! But yeah, the correct or incorrect primer can totally make or break the whole deal. Well, we've got a 4 day and then a 3 day doe-only season coming up shortly here in Illinois, last chance to use a gun for deer. I'm not holding my breath, the few deer I'm seeing where I hunt will NOT even cross an open field in daylight, that's how spooked they are. But like I've always maintained, sittin' in a tree down there is still WAY BETTER than watching Jerry Springer!!! Hope you make out OK with your neck problem, keep us in that loop please!!
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2012, 10:48 AM
VarmintSniper VarmintSniper is offline
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Scribe is right, you are gonna have your ups and downs its a matter of finding what works for you. PATIENCE is key. You cant expect to get out there and sniper after a day. I have two identical CVA's and one shoots better with the 777 magnum, the other white hot charges. I shoot both with premier 209 primers. I just get the best results with different charges in each gun. Also cleaning between every shot to sight it in is very important. You want to duplicate your first shot as close as possible and that means a clean cool barrel. You just gotta get out to the range, plan on being there a while, take multiple load set ups, and a ton of cleaning gear and get it!!!!!
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:16 PM
Hunting Man Hunting Man is offline
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Range time is vital to finding the right combo. Most in-lines can achieve 1" groups at 100 yds scoped. With the flintlocks, and good vision, 1" at 50 yds is very achievable. After taking to my buddy in PA last night seems that the deer are still nocturnal showing up at 2am. This is not good. Weather has been too nice so far to force them to feed late morning early afternoon. I hope to pull the trigger on the PA hunter and get one tag filled this season.
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:53 PM
Crawdaddy Crawdaddy is offline
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I got into this one late so I cant add much. I agree with putting in range time and experimenting with different powders and bullets.

I started muzzleloader hunting two years ago out of necessity. I couldnt draw rifle tags to save my life.

I am somewhat anal so take the rest of this with a grain of salt.

I put around 500 rounds through my Traditions Vortek before settling on a bullet and a load. Along the way I found several that would be acceptable but I knew I could do better.

I finally ended up using BH209 powder with a home made 463 grain cast boolit in a Harvester crushed rib sabot.

Guess what- it paid off. Two muzzleloader mulies this year.

Just like the violinist who asked a guy on the street how to get to Carnegie Hall. His response- practice, practice practice. So true.
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Old 01-06-2012, 03:34 AM
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tomlightfield tomlightfield is offline
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Same here HM, I went for the 4 day doe season last week, spent 2 days bow hunting and 4 days with guns, it was in the 50's every day and the wind blew like crazy all but one day. Made the deer almost totally nocturnal. Going again the weekend after this one, one more 3 day doe season and that's it for deer hunting this year
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:36 AM
Hunting Man Hunting Man is offline
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TLF, hope you fill a tag in that last 3 day hunt. Every year when all is done an the equipment is clean and put away there's a empty feeling left to me and then the long wait for fall to get here. This flintlock hunt will be the first in several years that I hunt by myself. Never really like that to much. Hunting with close friends always is a blast of fun. Flintlock hunting can be tough when the weather turns bad. Two years in a row we've got hit hard in PA with really heavy snows sending us home early. This year it looks pretty mild but that can keep the deer nocturnal. Always a balance this hunting is hoping for weather that forces the deer to feed early but not too bad to take us out of the hunt. Good luck and be safe!
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:52 PM
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midwestprowler midwestprowler is offline
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Are you counting clicks or adjusting to point of impact? I would try different sabots using one to loose will mess with accuracy big time. The shock waves bullets come supplied with a hph-24 if I remember right. Try a tighter fitting hph-12 sabot. If you are crushing pellets that could be your problem also. Shoot it for accuracy at 100 yards with different bullet sabot powder combos 3 shot groups each. If all fails test the scope with a mirror. Set desired zoom then use a hand held mirror to cover the scopes objective lens hold it flat on that end of the scope. Look into the scope you should see to sets of cross hairs one center one not may be high low left or right of center set. Remember the location of the set that's not center make sure your eye is center of the scope also looking at the center set of cross hairs. Remove mirror do not adjust zoom as it will change the location of the 2 sets of cross hairs. Fire a shot or 2 then check with mirror if the uncentered set of cross hairs have moved the scope is bad. You can also use this to optically zero your scope by adjusting scope to make both seen sets of cross hairs one set. This yields the maximum adjustment available up down left or right on all turrets. Hope you get it worked out GL HF MWP
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:05 PM
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midwestprowler midwestprowler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3212 View Post
I am new to muzzleloading also.I was told to start with 50 grains of 2f powder in a 50 caliber and increase the load in 5 grain increments until I find the most accurate load.In my case,with a 1 in 66 twist barrel,that is 70 grains.My only concern is will this have enough power to kill a deer at 75 yards.I'm shooting the round balls because nothing else is as accurate in this slow twist barrel.

If you can tell me the barrel length Cal of your gun Round ball weight what you have the gun zeroed at in yards & what powder your using. I could give you a educated guess how many ft/lbs it will have at any given yardage to your zero point. Also how fast it is moving in FPS or feet per second. Being a lead ball is going to limit killing range tho as it will drop fast & bullet weight retention is not very good in 90 to 100% lead bullets - balls.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:11 PM
frontiergander frontiergander is offline
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doesnt matter the Ft lbs, Round balls have very little by the time they reach 100 yards. They just basically bore a hole through the animal and expand very little unless they hit bone.

100gr 2f black powder and a 490" ball has under 400 ft lbs at 100 yards. But like i said, all that Ft lbs needs to kill such and such is for the modern bullets that are hard to expand and normally for centerfire rifles.

You can kill an elk with a whole lot less than the recommended minimum of 800 ft lbs.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:46 PM
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midwestprowler midwestprowler is offline
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I have computed some ballistics just a rough estimate.
If your gun is of standard barrel length for a 1-66 twist in 50 cal
using pyrodex 2f powder with 70 volumetric grain load as you stated.
With a weight of 177 grains for a round ball made of Pure Lead with a diameter of .490". It should look like this.

Yards / Velocity / Energy FT/LBS / ETA In Seconds
25 /1204.82 /570 / 0.056

50 /1026.51 /414 / 0.124

75 /922.23 / 334 / 0.201

100 /845.67 / 281 / 0.286

Zero at 75 yards gives you a trajectory like this.
25 yards 1.67 inches high. 50 yards 1.84 inches high. 75 dead on. 100 yards 4.28 inches low.
I would limit my shots in this case to 75 yards max. Yes upping the powder charge will give you more FT/LBS at any given yardage but not much good if not accurate like you stated & why you stuck with 70g charge. Good charge for the slower 1-66 twist you have.

Keep in mind. The Round ball weight will be effected by the alloy used to make it it also will have different ballistics and trajectory. A different ball diameter also effect this. Here are weights by alloy for a .490" ball. A weight of 177 grains for a round ball made of Pure Lead with a diameter of .490".
A weight of 170 grains for a round ball made of 1-10 Alloy with a diameter of .490".
A weight of 171 grains for a round ball made of Wheel Weight with a diameter of .490".
A weight of 163 grains for a round ball made of with a diameter of .490". Linotype

A round ball is unique among projectiles in that its ballistic characteristics are solely dependant upon its diameter (unless it's made of something other than lead) Also, a lead ball has a very poor sectional density (SD), and consequently poor penetration due to so much expansion but out to 75 yards I think your ok might have to track if you hit bone such as shoulder at 75 yards. Newer jacketed bullets have much higher SD leading to very good penetration most of the time passing right through the animal hints the need for a poly tip to aid in expansion on impact. Solid copper would be hardest to expand but very good penetration. Jacketed lead core bullets less SD good penetration more expansion on impact due to lead core still need a poly tip to expand tho.

Conclusion You can't kill what you can't penetrate & at longer ranges like 75 yards you will need a minimum amount of energy ft/lbs behind the ball to penetrate the hide & rib cage. Also enough SD left to do so due to lead expanding so much with such poor SD it even expands in flight. You will have met that requirement at 75 yards further then that you will just wound him or make him really mad. Now comparing this to a bow is very different broadheads have razor sharp cutting edges unlike bullets or round balls. That's why they can kill with under 100 FT/LBS of energy. Hope this answered your question MWP

Last edited by midwestprowler; 12-03-2012 at 08:59 PM. Reason: typo
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