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hunt NH 11-13-2011 02:26 AM

a few thoughs
 
iv thought about this alot over the last several years and have come to the opinion (and you guys can correct me if im wrong in my thought) that there is a product that is missing on the deer hunters product line. that product is young buck urine. i first stared thinking about this wile hunting on my uncles property a few towns over from me. the rut had not yet kicked in so using doe estrus was out of the question. given that this was the time of the year were bucks were still deturmaning the hir achry i desided to use buck urine. only product out was the tipical " domanat buck urine". so thats what i used. i was sitting in my stand overlooking a small clearing along and old logging trail on his land were several diferent deer trails met up in this clearing. i sprayed this domanant buck urine on the ground in the center of the clearing, and some on the base of the tree my stand was in. about a 1/2 hr before sun set a somewhat small buck started to enter the clearing. not 3 steps into the clearing for no aparent reason he turned around and took off just as fast as he could get out of there. the more i thought about it the more i felt that it was the buck urine i had used. he probably did not want any part of that "domanant buck". i have never again sence that day used domanant buck urine. any way the longer i have hunted the more i have learned about hunting though bolth tiral and error, talking to you guys, and reading liditure about hunting. i have learnd that a buck that makes a scrape is sending the message. "i am the boss around hear, these are my does." and that another buck smalling the urine can tell with a far amount of acuracy the age, size, and health of the buck who made/urienated on the scrap, and what time aproxamatly he left it. and that if he (the second buck) urinates on that scrape he is saying "oh ya we will see about that." also leaving that same info for the buck who made the scrape, so that he knows the age, size, and general health of the buck who urinated on his scrape, and whan he will be back. ok were am i going with all this about scrapes? to put it in human turms. (leaving out human weppons, fighting skills and what not) . say we were not more civilized than deer and domanace was how we desided who got to mate with who. and that i conciter myself the domanate male around hear. so i write a message on a wall of a local bar, leaving my info there. it would look somthing like this. im 29 years old, 5'11", 215lbs. my build could be described as nether muscular or fat. i am somewere in between thoughs two. ill be back hear at 6:30 tomorrow. say the next day i get a responce from a chalager. it the info of the chalager is . Im 19 years old, 5'4", 140lbs, and kinda chubby, ill see you tomorrow at 6:30. (this being the product that is not on the market for us deer hunters). you can bet id be there at 6:30 the following day to put that punk in his place, and make him move on to a diferent bar. now say that challagers message looked like this. im 31 years old, 6'6", 320lbs, and solid muscle, and ill be back tomorrow at 6:30. (this being the domanant buck urine currently the only buck urine on the market) what do you think the chances are ill be waiting around at 6:30 tha next day for him to show up? heck no. ill be at the bar were i sent the last guy. wouldent it be nice if we could refreshan scrapes with chalanger 1 info and not chalager 2 info?
just some randome thoughs i have had over the years, though i would put pen to paper on this and see what you guys thoughs were.

thoughs? ideas? what do you guys think?

Hunting Man 11-13-2011 07:00 AM

There's alot of truth to what you are saying. One point i would stay away from is putting any type of scent directly on you or around your stand. The simple reason is while very remote, the buck urine could cause an irate buck to charge you and second your scent will travel directly with the scent and allow any animal downwind to detect the human scent and hit the skids and escape. Rifle hunters might not encounter major problems due to distances but archers would have bad experiences hunting from the ground. Here's an perfect example: last Friday night in PA all our stands were packed so I hunted from the ground for the last night of hunting. At 5pm I saw a nice buck coming on the run right to my scent estrus wicks 80 yds out. The only problem was the wind shifted causing me to be between the wicks and him. At 45 yds out he came to a stop and whirled around and left. This is the first time in many years of getting busted and it was because of ground hunting, wind, scent location. Anyone who questions the effectiveness of estrus scents, that buck came running in and the 7pt that was killed came right into the scent trap. It works when used right!

on_the_fly 11-13-2011 07:39 AM

That is one of the main reasons I like to use the rear scent glands off deer. I just cut off the glands from the boys buck yesterday to use in my hunting area. They make great drags then I hang up. Love using the glands from the big doe I harvest too, and I've been know to get them from friends deer because I hadn't gotton one yet or something. I think the work better than any store bought attractant by far, expesualy if you us them in or close to the same area they came from, the deer herd is already familiar with that piticular deer (smell) and will come right on in !! And like you said now I'm using the glands from one of the local smaller bucks so maybe one of the elders will come teach him a leasson. Only problem for the elder is the smaller buck only showes up on my time now !:whistling:

hunt NH 11-18-2011 01:09 PM

anyone elce have any thoughts on this?:coffee:

BruceBruce1959 11-18-2011 04:39 PM

the Bucks already know who's who in the woods long before scrapes begin. Through bachelor groups the bucks spar together and learn quickly who they can and cannot mess with..
I don't think urine in scrapes makes a whole heck of a difference between bucks, I do think the urine is deposited in scrapes more for the Doe's to examine and monitor.
I guess you have to think of it like a mens Cologne, some girls like specific colognes while others dont like that particular cologne, but i bet if enough does smell the cologne one of them is always going to like it.
I've seen small buck scrapes and i've seen trophy buck scrapes but it isnt the Buck that decides who gets the Doe's anyway, The Doe's are the ones that choose which buck is going to breed them and they even choose where it's going to take place, keep in mind the bucks genetics are what the doe's are after, they have the ability to determine which Buck is good enough for her offspring even if that means a young 1 & 1/2 year old buck carrying great genetics.
I think All bucks breed during the rut but I also think what takes place over time is the older wiser Good Gene Bucks are most likely what the mature Doe's are seeking and I'm glad it happens that way because even those Doe's know the old bucks have the ability to Get R done while the young bucks are still trying to figure just what it is they are doing.
I hope my scratchings were clear enough to understand the point I was trying to make.

deerless 11-18-2011 06:30 PM

I see what you are getting at hunt nh as I would not want to mess with the bully on the block just to get a piece when there may be an easier find in another area. I myself am not a big fan of scents, this is due to my own expierience. I see far more deer when I just play the wind and stay as scent free as possible than with scents out. Your example of the skipper taking off is probably true for many animals many who we probably do not see due to them circling downwind and getting a wiff of us and the scent we put out instead of just walking on by in a usual pattern.

Buckshot 11-19-2011 04:48 AM

My take is either the buck smelled you or where you walked in or the stuff you poured out of the bottle spooked him. I have seen to many small bucks mingle with big bucks and stay around the edges of the mating. When thet get to close the big buck just chases him a short distance.

tator 11-19-2011 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunt NH (Post 62604)
about a 1/2 hr before sun set a somewhat small buck started to enter the clearing. not 3 steps into the clearing for no aparent reason he turned around and took off just as fast as he could get out of there. the more i thought about it the more i felt that it was the buck urine i had used. he probably did not want any part of that "domanant buck".

I have thought about this too huntnh. The bad thing is, most hunting companies products are geared towards "dominant bucks". What they are assuming is that your property that you hunt has more than one dominant buck in the area. Now, if you hunt and have control of 500+ acres, this may be true. In my case, I hunt abotu 250acres and if there is a dominant buck in the area and I know it, why do I want to use a product that could show more dominance than he is? That's what I've always worried. Plus, what if that "dominant buck" is a 170inch monster (just saying) and his urine in a bottle scares off a 150incher that I would've loved to have? Bucks can tell size and dominance by urine, rubs and scrapes. That's why they do it, it's their calling card. I totally get what you're saying... I'm like you though, I'm not going to risk using that dominant buck urine because of the drawlbacks it could have.

btw... I'm 6'3" and 280lbs.... lol



Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceBruce1959 (Post 63022)
I do think the urine is deposited in scrapes more for the Doe's to examine and monitor.

I agree that this is the intention of the buck urinating, but other bucks will visit that scrape and know who has been there.


Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceBruce1959 (Post 63022)
I've seen small buck scrapes and i've seen trophy buck scrapes but it isnt the Buck that decides who gets the Doe's anyway,

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with this!!!


Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceBruce1959 (Post 63022)
The Doe's are the ones that choose which buck is going to breed them and they even choose where it's going to take place, keep in mind the bucks genetics are what the doe's are after, they have the ability to determine which Buck is good enough for her offspring even if that means a young 1 & 1/2 year old buck carrying great genetics.

I don't completely agree with you on this BB. Yes, the does get to choose the buck, the place, the time and the mood (LOL) BUT- I think they want the dominant buck to breed them. I don't believe they can tell the genetics of a buck. They can visually see it's a good genetic buck when they see how old and mature he is. Therefore, they want to be breed by that mature, dominant buck. Thus why we all see does being chased by young 6's, 7's and 8point bucks.
NOW, if there are no mature, dominant bucks in the area (the does will know this by the scrapes) and they will be more receptive towards younger bucks b/c there aren't any big boys around.


Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceBruce1959 (Post 63022)
I think All bucks breed during the rut but I also think what takes place over time is the older wiser Good Gene Bucks are most likely what the mature Doe's are seeking and I'm glad it happens that way .

I don't think buttons breed. But all other bucks, yes, I agree with you.


Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceBruce1959 (Post 63022)
even those Doe's know the old bucks have the ability to Get R done while the young bucks are still trying to figure just what it is they are doing

haha! that's the truth... love seeing young bucks "trying" to make things happen!


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