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Hunt for the deer, not the score

15K views 70 replies 14 participants last post by  buckfever 
#1 ·
I found a great story by Mike Leggett titled, "Hunt for the deer, not the score"Hope you enjoy reading it as much as I did..

the following clip from the article is Exactly what I've been trying to say for several years now.

"Somewhere along the way some of us have lost sight of what deer hunting is supposed to be — fun and relaxing,
a way to teach our kids about life, time spent outdoors with friends and chicken-fried backstrap.
Somewhere along the way, it's morphed into an obsession with scoring big deer. Trophy deer.
Somewhere along the way, the hunt has gotten lost
"
 
#37 ·
i didnt want to get on this one and im not picking sides but that same outfitting industry has also helped privatize more land and outprice hunts the average joe cannot afford.this contributes to the us vs them mentality.i dont believe hunting was ever meant to be a rich mans hobby exclusivley.
 
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#38 ·
that works both ways. you very statement divides in to us and them. its a sour grapes statement. i'm not rich. i work my butt off to pay my bills and i managed to afford it. anyone can if they want to bad enough. also there are tons a tons of public hunting lands. so yea its closed lands to hunters to hunt for free but its put farmer browns kid in college to lead a better life than farmer brown did. if a farmer choose not to lease his land great. if he does thats capitalism and i for one won't hold it against them.
 
#39 ·
i know it works both ways u stated one side and i stated the other of outfitting.you have to realize some hunters feel that way.as far as me not being rich truer words were never spoken but i dont begrudge anybody who can afford these hunts.that wasnt a personal attack on anybody who uses an outfitter just an opinion on how an average hunter might feel which contributes to an us vs them mentality
 
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#43 ·
very true, some folks may feel that way. but feelings can be and are controlled only by that individual. i have no control over someone elses feelings. so instead of projecting that issue onto someone else the person with those feelings must deal with them in their own head.

not beating on you. its a general statement.
 
#40 ·
The whole industry stems back to bucks sporting big racks. Today nothing about deer hunting does not have at least some small tie back to trophy buck hunting. If you as a hunter watch one TV show you are tied to it. We are talking about a billion + dollar industry. There is no way you are going to find a sin free enviroment with that much money tied to it. Did they get away with it --NO, were they fined ---YES. The law handled it with what they felt was right but this does not mean that outfitters or trophy hunting is bad. Let me also state that I do wish they would have strung the fellons up by the nads. However we all know this is not how our system always works. I think outfitters are great. When Ron and I went to ILL. on our hunt we had a great time. We had great conversation, laughs, met new people, shared stories with fellow hunters, saw awesome deer that we would never see at home, and came back with memories that will last a lifetime. I for one would go on a outfitter hunt every year if money and time permitted. Bottom line is you can't knock it if you have not tried it. There is a feeling you can not discribe when you are in a strange set of woods in an area that you know for a fact that a deer of legend could walk by at any moment. Talk about an adrenilin rush that lasts all day and through your dreams every night while you are in such a location. If you have a problem with the outcome help change the laws but don't knock the outfitter industry or the trophy hunters that drive it as a whole.
 
#41 ·
just so I understand the points: the adrenilin rush I get on a mature PA mountain buck would score relitively low compared to the adrenilin rush from a trophy Ill buck. The adrenilin scoring system is a nationally recognized format that utalizes sound/sqeals, tears production, knee shaking, heavy breathing, blood pressure check every ten minutes, the inability to make cohearent sounds, and the intensity of the high five with your camera man, I don't have a camera man, which prevents me from being a true trophy hunter anyway. Lets be real for a minute, outfitters or law breakers should be dealth with with-in the law. Trophy hunters are only one segment of our hunting fraternity which is fine with me as long they don't don't bash me as an inferior hunter. Trophy hunters are simply deer hunters with a different set of goals, period. Put little oh me in a giant buck format and I'm going to locate him just as most of us here would. The trophy hunter in order to survive has to be in the giant buck enviroment every time out because anything less is a failure. I try to not put myself in those high pressure situations, its bad on the heart.
 
#44 ·
wait a minute here if a another hunter doesnt like what direction hunting is going he cant state his opinion against it.If a hunter doesnt like trophy hunting and the commercialization of the sport why doesnt he have the right to his voice.the same way someone thinks trophy hunting and the rest of it is fine.theres always gonna be two sides to this coin.the local who hunted farmer browns farm for years and now cant because its leased to an outfitter hes never gonna see it your way.the guy who takes a trip to farmers browns and shoots a 12Pt could care less about the locals feelings.theres always gonna be differences.
 
#45 ·
I dont think it's a small % ronn I think you just willfully overlook all the news directed towards the outfitters that end up getting caught.
Like these guys from Lethal Impact outfitters, they've been in business for years don't you agree that each time one of these outfitters gets caught it doesn't simply create a minor setback these acts cause major problems for ALL hunters.
I enjoy hunting public lands I'm sick and tired of Outfitters causing private landowners to shut off their lands because of illegal outfitter practices.

This is my opinion and you don't have to agree with my opinion but for the sake of all hunters you shouldn't try to sugar coat an outfitters illegal activities.
 
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#47 · (Edited)
bb and i sick and tired of guys like you beating up the other guy doing a legal hunt. sick and tired of guys like you saying if it ain't like me and my way it ain't hunting and in turn is less, and that is exactly what you are saying. why does everyone have to conform to your idea of what hunting is? you lump it all together because a few outfitters do bad things. i don't lump all the meat hunters in with the slob hunters that just kill stuff for the sake of killing. if you don't like it tough. its the way it is. no one or i never beat on you for shooting a doe or immature buck quite the opposite i'm happy for ya. you must have had your reasons for taking that deer. so go ahead keep driving that wedge while your at it beat up on the crossbow guys, oh and those that bait legally, and those that use dogs for deer. go ahead keep looking down your nose at others but thats not the way i was raised. i was raised to defend those being unjustly persecuted so thats what i'm doing here. if you can't understand the simple principle then i feel sorry for you having to go trough life being a hater.

spiker, you have the capability to pay for that hunt whether you think you can't or not. its a mater of how bad you want to. if you have no interest so be it but that doesn't mean i do or don't. why hold it against me or the landowner because you don't have enough desire to make it happen. like i've said before i'm always pushing for better even though some don't have the drive to strive for better or the understanding of what better is. don't fault me or others for having the drive.

so what if the landowner discovered a value to something they have and choose to capitalize on it. you saying you wouldn't if it put $50 an acre in your pocket every year?
 
#49 ·
bb and i sick and tired of guys like you beating up the other guy doing a legal hunt. sick and tired of guys like you saying if it ain't like me and my way it ain't hunting and in turn is less, and that is exactly what you are saying. why does everyone have to conform to your idea of what hunting is? you lump it all together because a few outfitters do bad things. i don't lump all the meat hunters in with the slob hunters that just kill stuff for the sake of killing. if you don't like it tough. its the way it is. no one or i never beat on you for shooting a doe or immature buck quite the opposite i'm happy for ya. you must have had your reasons for taking that deer. so go ahead keep driving that wedge while your at it beat up on the crossbow guys, oh and those that bait legally, and those that use dogs for deer. go ahead keep looking down your nose at others but thats not the way i was raised. i was raised to defend those being persecuted so thats what i'm doing here. if you can't understand the simple principle then i feel sorry for you having to go trough life being a hater.

spiker, you have the capability to pay for that hunt whether you think you can't or not. its a mater of how bad you want to. if you have no interest so be it but that doesn't mean i do or don't. why hold it against me or the landowner because you don't have enough desire to make it happen. like i've said before i'm always pushing for better even though some don't have the drive to strive for better or the understanding of what better is. don't fault me or others for having the drive.

so what if the landowner discovered a value to something they have and choose to capitalize on it. you saying you wouldn't if it put $50 an acre in your pocket every year?

it's amazing how facts and truth spark such anger from some people,
And once again ronn you can call me all the names you want, go ahead and have at it I've been called many things before BUT
you'll never be able to call me an Antler harvester that pays big money to be successful.
I'll always find success the old fashioned way by "HUNTING" for it, NOT by buying it.
Calm down and Have a good day Ronn...
 
#50 ·
i think this thread and the pot thread got carried away with personal attacks and name calling.i feel hunt nh felt like he was singled out for his opinion with the pot thread.This is our forum and we are adults and should be able to disagree without this type of behavior.If any of us are ever gonna learn anything new we have to let both sides be heard.this isnt gonna be the last time we disagree i only hope we do it with more class next time.this post is not intended for any individual but rather all of us myself included who are members of this forum.
 
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#52 ·
thats all well and good. but i'm not going to let someone beat down someone else with out saying something. having an opinion is fine but trying to force people, through propaganda, to think the same way is Nazism and it shouldn't be tolerated. just leave the other guy alone is the point but bb can't seem to do that. always slinging the crap to see where it will stick. he started a thread that was aimed directly at slapping trophy hunters and has tried to change it to all outfitters are evil then blame me for starting something. yea i'm angry half truths and those that tell them most often make me angry, especially if its to put down someone or some other law abiding group. get a clue seems to be a tolerated phrase. so he needs to get a clue
 
#53 ·
If anyone reads outdoor life read the September issue page 76. Not to carry this post (aka) arguement further but the article is titled "Trophy Deer, how the craze hurts hunting" by the Editors of Outdoor Life Magazine. I have put on the kevlar vest and helmet and am now in a secure bunker so let the bullets ( words ) fly. P.s. read it with an open mind.
 
#56 ·
come on guys are we in the rut here??lol just kidding! to me we are all equal here sence we are all deer hunters!we share our stories, pictures,advise etc...! i would love to shoot a trophy buck(a once in a lifetime buck) by all means i'm not a trophy hunter but i do get my deer they are tasty!!i don't have any problem if someone else is a trophy hunter?
 
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#58 · (Edited)
how would you feel about someone writing an article intitled "the meat hunter: yahoo of the woods and how they hurt deer hunting" or "the meat hunter: the life and times of elmer fudd"? i know how much i would like it or stock i'd put in it.
 
#59 ·
Wow you guys never sleep :yawn:
When i first started hunting i just wanted to kill a deer
Now im happy sitting looking at the deer waiting for the chance to kill a big buck .
That is all i am going to shoot , thats how i hunt ...If some one else wants to shoot doe , or sm bucks thats fine , Go for it ...Its how you hunt
 
#61 · (Edited)
I never said I was promoting the article ,or not. I wanted to present both sides and open it to discussion not argument. I really do not understand the whole point here because I thought that the emphasis of an open forum was to openly discuss and throw ideas or thoughts around and look at all aspects of the topic and make our own conclusions. Every one has an opinion and different as it may be we should respect that . Just because I suggest reading an article doesn't mean that all that read it should bear my opinion. I mean how boring would that be ? Ronn you know me well enough to know that I of all people would never back down from a good heated discussion , especially if I believed that my point was the only correct one. BUT we are are all individuals that look different , hunt differently , and maybe think 180 degrees differently than the next guy person . I agree to stand together on the main front but as an individual I think I will stand alone on some of my opinions and I can live with that and I hope all that read this post can too. You and I have had some great adventures and I don't mean to strike a nerve with you but I feel that the discussion is getting out of hand and if I have added to that I apologize.This doesn't mean that I am not going to post my thoughts or opinions but that I hope you read them without taking offense. Here is my whole point. I feel that with all the media that produce tv shows and publish magazine articles always put the greatest emphasis on the antlers not the table fair or most importantly (to me) the adventure. And that kids growing up reading dads hunting magazines and watching the hunting channel think that antler size is the trophy not the animal itself. I know this from experience with my 11 year old son that stated just that to me over a year ago and we talked about it and I hope that I didn't burst his bubble . I did tell him that hard work and perseverance will pay off in the future and that any good deer is a trophy if it was earned.
 
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#62 · (Edited)
its hard to say we must stand together as hunters and in the same breath say those guys are running hunting. its an oxymoron. or a do as i say not as i do. not sure what it would be, but it makes no sense. those that attack the other group can only believe its not hunting ,because its not like me, otherwise they wouldn't be throwing that group under the bus. with a statement like this one can only conclude this is the case so i will always defend that group getting thrown under the bus. either we are standing together and not tearing each other down or every group is fair game for attack by the other. it can't be both ways. opinions are fine but when it tears up someone else that we are brothers with i'm going to jump.

we are all in the same boat. so when someone starts in with an ax chopping a hole it the boat because he hates those guys on the right side of the boat, someone needs to take the ax from his hands.

huntr- and you know me well enough and you know i got no problem shooting that fork if its putting meat in the freezer when i have none in there.
 
#63 ·
okay is this any different than other members thinking i should not hunt with my lar8(black rifle).Some people feel that im bad for hunting by doing this.To me its a five shot hunting rifle,very accurate, and probably one of my favorite rifles.Now i abide by the rules of hunting with it but this is the same division just in another form.There are many issues that can divide us but in the end we have to be one.
 
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#64 · (Edited)
nope no different, if i said those guys aren't real hunters but i don't. i do not advocate hunting with military type guns because they weren't designed for that and there are better platfroms out there but i have always said hunt with what you want as long as its legal and can do the job. i don't say those guys are ruinning hunting because they choose this gun or that
 
#65 ·
i understand your point ronn and i AGREE with you. .I think this thread has gone way off course.You are not a trophy hunter you like to pursue big bucks but as stated you go to pa to fill the freezer.Thats not a trophy hunter in todays terms and you shouldnt be looked at like that.A guy who takes a trip occasionally is not a trophy hunter.But if you were and its done legally than i have support for you as a fellow hunter.
 
#66 ·
Ronn, the real bottom line to all of this is, when you or anyone else goes to an Outfitter you're not hunting. (Period) you're simply a shooter placed in a strategic location by a guide and told what to shoot. (Period)

so when you say I am putting hunters down by condemning outfitters you're wrong Ronn, I am NOT putting hunters down, I'm putting the shooters down for promoting that aspect of hunting, an aspect that I along with a lot of other hunters believe is hurting the world of "HUNTING".

And you yourself ronn have always said that you agree, that "when you hunt with an outfitter you're not hunting you're only shooting."
So in your own words, I'm not putting down hunters I'm putting down shooters


Here's a quote from one of your posts Ronn
"now it sounds like i'm all for these guided hunts and i am but its not as simple as being for or against. I've payed the coin to hunt HUGES bucks, IN ILLINOIS. it took about 4 years of planning to make it happen and its for sure not something i can do every year, not even close. was it what i thought it would be? yes and no. First i couldn't help notice that i was no longer a hunter, that had all been done by the outfitter, but i was more of a shooter. that sucked. But i was in the HUGE buck capital of the lower 48 and had a for real chance of a whopper. in fact i passed on a 140 class 3.5 year old because it wasn't much of a reach for better."


So anyway, this is my absolute final post on this subject. So ronn now you're free to sling all the names at me you want to, call me whatever you want, I've come to expect it from you, maybe one day you'll be able to talk over these subjects without going postal on me or anyone else.

Good Day.
 
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#68 · (Edited)
Ronn, the real bottom line to all of this is, when you or anyone else goes to an Outfitter you're not hunting. (Period) you're simply a shooter placed in a strategic location by a guide and told what to shoot. (Period)

so when you say I am putting hunters down by condemning outfitters you're wrong Ronn, I am NOT putting hunters down, I'm putting the shooters down for promoting that aspect of hunting, an aspect that I along with a lot of other hunters believe is hurting the world of "HUNTING".

And you yourself ronn have always said that you agree, that "when you hunt with an outfitter you're not hunting you're only shooting."
So in your own words, I'm not putting down hunters I'm putting down shooters

Here's a quote from one of your posts Ronn
"now it sounds like i'm all for these guided hunts and i am but its not as simple as being for or against. I've payed the coin to hunt HUGES bucks, IN ILLINOIS. it took about 4 years of planning to make it happen and its for sure not something i can do every year, not even close. was it what i thought it would be? yes and no. First i couldn't help notice that i was no longer a hunter, that had all been done by the outfitter, but i was more of a shooter. that sucked. But i was in the HUGE buck capital of the lower 48 and had a for real chance of a whopper. in fact i passed on a 140 class 3.5 year old because it wasn't much of a reach for better."


So anyway, this is my absolute final post on this subject. So ronn now you're free to sling all the names at me you want to, call me whatever you want, I've come to expect it from you, maybe one day you'll be able to talk over these subjects without going postal on me or anyone else.

Good Day.
bruce that wasn't the jest of your post and you know it. read your very first quote. heck read the title of the thread you started. does it say anything about outfitters or is it just slamming the trophy hunter? it was guys that go for horn was ruining hunting and then you tried to switch it to something else about outfitters ruining hunting. you painted yourself in a corner and now your trying to paint a door you can get out. are you sure you're not on obama's staff?

yup that was my take on going with an outfitter but how in the world can anyone with half a brain conclude that i said they were evil and ruining hunting but again thats wasn't your point of posting that tripe in the first place now was it? come on fabricate another excuse for being a hater. lets see where does that list end? first its hating on the trophy hunter, then hateing on the outfitters, hating on shooters now, where does it end? why not just start in on the cross bow guys wait seems i remember you're not real happy with the guys that use black guns for hunting, baiters yup you don't like those guys either but sitting in that apple tree is fine. what about left handed hunters? are you hating on them? maybe brown eyed hunters? why not just post a list so we know who we should hate ok?

maybe you should have quit posting before you put up that rubbish. it would have saved a lot of cya, dancing, jogging, and deflecting on your part.
 
#67 ·
Why even put shooters down?

There are things that have a more negative effct on hunting than outfitters.

Those that shoot deer off the roads at night

Those that tear up a farmers land with an ATV coz they're too lazy to walk

Those that poach every deer they can find in the name of food

Those that sit right on the property line hunting the next farm over rather than hunt their own

Those that disaregard "no tresspassing" signs go where they want regardless.

Those that parade around in their camo at walmart with blood dripping off their tailgates with an "in your face" attitude

And last but not least, the outdoor channel, perhaps the biggest deception of all. Entertaining but worthless.

All of these I put up with every year. Outfitters haven't bothered me at all.
 
#69 ·
Boy this has generated way too much activity. :ranting:Quality debate on any given topic is generally a good thing, however, I think we passed the quality part and just need to withdraw with out compromising each others integrity. Remember what I wrote about organizations collasping (spell) from with-in. I see no common ground or merit to further posting on this topic. So, why don't we take a breather and see what else we can discuss! :coffee:
 
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