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Old 02-07-2012, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Hellbilly View Post
problem is with my church is the old people run it.They dont want to do anything and will squish anything we try to get going.All they want to do is show up and sleep and not to be bothered. A few of us tried to get a youth ministry going,they didnt like that to much trouble.so it went away.We have not had a work weekend in 1.5yrs. Mens study group went south.We used to have open BBQs to get locals there to talk to them and hope to get some in church.Several familys left when they were told childerns church was to much of a problem.They hired a new pastor and thats a story in its self. He has made comments and statements that or way off. He can talk for 30min and I could not for the life of me tell you what he said,going all over the place,but not saying anything if ya know what I mean.One of the decons left a note on the windshield of a co-worker that the wife had been talking to and finely got them there.that was there first and last sunday because of what the note said.they just said this is why we never went and wont come back.church is full of hipocrits.The note said this is MY parking space so dont park here again.very nice to say to first timers. This is just the tip of the iceburg,I could go on and on. This is why Im looking. Also how do ya feel about a gay deacon? another story
WOW. that's about all I can say in response right after reading your post! It sounds to me like your church is having all sorts of issues. I know you don't want to hear this.... but I would pray about this to God because He may not want you to leave. He may need you to work there. When God's house is crumbling down, He needs strong Christians to build it back up. I understand about the "old people running the church" thing. We used to have that in my church. It wasn't as apparent as your church is, but still, they didn't like the "new" hymns we'd sing or evening standing up to sing. They were old fashioned. All I can say to that is... They are old, and they don't have much time left- I know that sounds bad, but you have to remember, they are from waaaaay back when, when things were simple and easy going. Older people DO NOT LIKE CHANGE. I say that about people who are around 70+ years old. They do not like it one bit... especially in their church. They feel a sense of ownership. The one way I would approach this is by talking with them. Telling them your intent. I, for the life of me, cannot understand why they would not want a youth program. Other than... they don't want kids and new families coming to their church. They are content with the way it is and with the members that go there. This is truely about as sad as it gets. Churches are meant to GROW, not stay the same year after year. You are going to have people come and go because of lifes changes, but it's clear that your elders don't want new people included... and this is WRONG.

As far as the note goes,,, there are always people like this everywhere. Sometimes people forget that their actions speak WAY louder than words. Writing the note was wrong, but once again you have to understand that this person had probably parked there in that spot for years. They felt like someone was moving in on their turf. It's wrong, but it's all they know.

I would talk to the pastor and find out what his biblical beliefs are. Find out why he wanted to become a pastor and find out what drives him. Try to pry in on him and find out about his relationship with God. You can find out alot about a pastor by asking very simple questions (I've listed some below). Ask them and if you don't get your answers then it's time for that man to leave.

Stick with it HB... I know you want to leave, but PRAY about it... ask God if HE wants you to leave or to stay. He'll make the answer clear to you. Remember, you're on this earth to do HIS work, not yours. This may be the church that He wants you to help rebuild and light that fire under. It's apparent that changes need to be made.


Questions for pastor's ministry beliefs:
1. Do you believe God sent His son Jesus to earth to die on the cross for our sins? YES
2. Do you believe Jesus was raised from the dead 3 days after He was laid to rest in a tomb? YES
3. What made you want to become a pastor?
4. What do you think the saying "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" mean? Are they related in any way?
5. What are your views on children's ministry? How important is it to you?
VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!
6. How is God the Father working in your life right now?
7. What made you want to come to this church?
8. How important is it to witness to outsiders from the church?
9. How important are new members to you and your ministry?
10. Can you address the importance of witnessing to outsiders and to youth and children and the NEED of both of these in our church?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2012, 12:07 PM
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timetohunt timetohunt is offline
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A problem with us Humans is that we grow acostumed rather quickly to what is comfortable and dont like to step outside of that zone. This is especially true with churches that get so steeped up in their traditions and ways that they see any change as a threat to there comfort and palce in the "orginization." My family and I have been doing some serious self evaluations on what church is supposed to be and what does God want us to get out of fellow believers. We were both raised in traditional baptist churches, that followed traditional service styles. No where in the Bible does it give us black and white outline as to the order of a church service. The Bible does tell us to meet together with fellow belivevers to worhip Him, build each other up, strengthen our beliefs, and to always remember Chirsts redeeming sacrifice on the Cross through communion. Those are all inward focusing on the church family but the Bible dosent stop there. The Bible also tells Christians to go out into all the world and to tell everyone about Chirst. This is the outward focus of church and christians. It is much easier to step out and boldy declare Christ when you have the support of fellow friends and believers. Many people do not like this becauseit is way outside of the comfort zone of most people and it involves contreversy and is not "politically correct."

American Christianity is generally very weak. We go to church everyweek and are never tested. When someone does question us on beliefs we feel like we are being persecuted when in reality this is so miniscule. I dont know how many of you are familiar with The Voice of the Martyr but it is a tremendous orginization. I just watched a Series called Underground Reality Colombia - This is a documentary produced by Teenagers that traveled to colombia to see what Christians endure there. It made me very ashamed of how I live my Christian life. The people interviewed risk there lives everysingle day to spread the news of Jesus in an extremely hostile land. I urge all of you to check this out. I am still processing it but it has lit a fire within me to want to do more for Christ.

I may have strayed a little off topic but this is all from my heart. I dont know if we will rememeber our screen names in Heaven but I am looking forward to meeting all of you fellow Christians there if we do not have a chance on this earth.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:31 PM
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Very good post above! I hope too that someday we will look at each other and know we were friends.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:21 AM
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very good post.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:29 AM
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very good post.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:56 AM
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Very good post timetohunt! And yes, I am familiar with the Voice of the Martyrs. There are actually a couple of guys who frequent the meetings/gatherings of this group.

I also agree with your comments and opinions. It is very hard to be a voice for God in today's world. It's easy to just tell ourselves, "that person won't listen to me" or "they don't want to hear about God". It's easy to do, and unfortunately, I do that alot. I had my eyes opened up one Sunday morning when our teacher in Sunday-school told us about his view on witnessing. He had biblical passages to back this up too (sorry I didn't write them down), but he said that when we start thinking someone won't listen to us about God or they don't want to hear us, etc... that God frowns upon this because it's almost like we're saying "Even GOD Himself can't help this person". Here's why... when we witness to someone, it's God talking through us. yes, it's our voice, it's our thoughts, it's our character, but God is doing the work. Our teacher also said that when we witness to someone, God does NOT always expect us to sink in on that person. Or for the "witness" to work. God wants us to plant seeds. When you grow a garden, you plant seeds and if you go check on the garden the next day expecting everything to be grown, you're going to be disapointed. Sometimes, and actually MOST TIMES, the person does not "pick up" what you're "laying down". They don't want to hear it, they don't want to bother. Once that seed is planted... GOD WILL DO THE REST. Now, sometimes, God may want you to further your testimony to that particular person, and maybe not. The best thing to do is pray for that person. I thought this was a very good analogy of how God works. It's the truth because it's in the Bible. If we turn away from people who are lost, then we're saying that this person isn't worthy of knowing God and that God couldn't "change" that person anyways. It's just like saying "GOD YOU ARE NO GOOD TO THAT PERSON".

I too grew up in a baptist church, but ours is southern baptist. AND NO, that doesn't mean we scream out AMEN every 5 seconds or that we clap all the time. (SORRY had to throw some Baptist humor in there) I was raised up that on Sunday, it was the Lord's day. We were to worship Him and sing to Him. Now, that's not to say we didn't carry that out throughout the week too. We attended church functions and fellowhips, but mainly we established a good relationship with our church members a LONG time ago.

The great thing about my church is that it's ever-changing. We get new people in all the time and we have people go all the time (move away, etc...) The core of the church is there and will always be there, but we have such a strong core that the church will always be strong. We focus on one thing.. GOD'S WILL. We are a praying church and we love worshiping with one another.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:19 PM
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Hellbilly Hellbilly is offline
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Thanks for all the good input. I will pray about what HE wants me to do. I will also talk to the pastor,and ask him those questions.Im not sure Ill like what I will hear. We were gone and missed about 3wks straight. When we went back the wife said something to him about us being gone.He said that he will never stop by to check on anybody or call to see whats going on,if you need anything or if he could do anything for you.But that he will miss you while your gone,but be happy and welcome you back when you do show up. I cant tell you how many times he has made statements that didnt sit well with me.And after doing my own studying and reading scripture that he wasnt wrong,but DEAD WRONG and way off the mark. He got voted in because the old people out number us and they like him because he does what they tell him to do and not to do. He more of a puppet than a pastor. He dont go to the hospital to check on members,dont call,stop by,no email, NOTHING. I will pray on this and talk to him. As you said maybe Im not supposed to leave,but help get it back on track. As GOD wills. Thanks guys for all your help.I will keep yall posted
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Old 02-09-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellbilly View Post
Thanks for all the good input. I will pray about what HE wants me to do. I will also talk to the pastor,and ask him those questions.Im not sure Ill like what I will hear. We were gone and missed about 3wks straight. When we went back the wife said something to him about us being gone.He said that he will never stop by to check on anybody or call to see whats going on,if you need anything or if he could do anything for you.But that he will miss you while your gone,but be happy and welcome you back when you do show up. I cant tell you how many times he has made statements that didnt sit well with me.And after doing my own studying and reading scripture that he wasnt wrong,but DEAD WRONG and way off the mark. He got voted in because the old people out number us and they like him because he does what they tell him to do and not to do. He more of a puppet than a pastor. He dont go to the hospital to check on members,dont call,stop by,no email, NOTHING. I will pray on this and talk to him. As you said maybe Im not supposed to leave,but help get it back on track. As GOD wills. Thanks guys for all your help.I will keep yall posted

I realize you're stuck between a rock and a hard place HB. That's a difficult place to be especially when it's involving your church or your place of worship. I would continue to pray about the situation and I would meet with your pastor one on one. Like I said before, God may be steering you to take more of a leadership role within the church to get it worked back out the right way. Then again, God may tell you plain as day, GET OUT and find another church. Remember, God will give you the strength to do whatever He wants you to do. It may seem impossible, but with God's help, anything is possible. The only reason I suggest sticking it out and praying for a bit is because if every member left the church when something went wrong or not their way, there would be no churches left. I'm not saying you're trying to "run away", I'm just saying God may have a plan for you there and He may not want you to leave. The #1 thing Christian people need to remember is that they are part of a family. The church family is important. Just the same way you would not walk out on your REAL family, you wouldn't want to walk out on your church family. That's important because during the hard times, your family needs you the most. Now, that said... if you have a family member who is into drugs or harmful activity, you're not going to support that habit and you may have to "cut them off" for awhile until they stop or get help. This may be what God is wanting you to do.

I have one question for you HB,, and this would probably be the #1 thing that would make me decide whether to leave or stay. You mentioned the older people don't want to have a youth/children's program. I'm assuming you have NO child or youth sunday-school type classes for young people? Am I correct?
My next question is this... do you have children that fall into this category? They would be attending chlidren's or youth services?
If the answer is yes, I would say God is screaming in your ear to FIND A NEW PLACE TO WORSHIP. If you're like me, (and I know you are) your kids are TOP priority in your life. They are NOT getting what they need if they are only learning from you and your wife and from regular church services. I believe kids CAN grow up with just those things and continue a Christian lifestyle, but it's much less likely than if they were brought up being part of a Sunday School class where they learn Bible stories and all about God's love. Just like a school system, when Kindergardeners come to school, we don't teach them chemistry, physics, and english literature... They have to learn the basics first. Spelling, writing, knowing numbers, adding, subtracting, etc... The church is the same why. If kids are only getting a lesson with the adults in the worship service, then they aren't getting much at all. The worship service should be geared towards people 18years old and over.
The same way we need to be a part of a church family, our kids need to be a part of a Sunday school program where they have teachers who teach them about God and how He sent His only Son to die on the cross for our sins. They need to learn about Jonah and the whale, David and Goliath, Cain and Able, Moses and the 10 commandments, Noah and the ark, the Christmas Story, Jesus's death and resurection, and all the other basic factual events of the Bible. The kids program is sort of their church family. All the kids in the church create a family. Even though they aren't brothers and sisters, they are a family. My son is 3 and he's always talking about the older kids in the church, the ones who are between his age and 10 years old. They play together, and learn together and they grow in God's name together. It's a support system that God wants us to follow. This is why going to church is so important. We hold each other accountable and we help each other through tough times and good times. We're there for each other and we go through things together. It's extremely comforting to know that if I need anything I have a group of people who love me and my family tremendously and they would do anything for us. Now, I don't "use" them in this way unless I have to, the same way they don't "use" me and my family.
God wants us to fellowship together in love and to have forgiveness for each other. He wants us to treat others like we want to be treated and He wants us to love everyone, no matter their faults. Everyone on the face of this planet is different. We all come together in a church family like a puzzle. We're God's puzzle
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Old 02-09-2012, 10:07 PM
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Hellbilly Hellbilly is offline
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my kids or 24y/o and up. The youngest person in the church now is 20yrs old next is 31 then jumps into the 40s and up from there.All the familiys with young'uns have already left so another church thats does have a youth program
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:08 AM
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I dont want to sound demeaning but that sounds like a "dying" church to me. If I were to visit a church like that with no one close to my age and no young kids I do not think I would visit a second time.

Our Pastor a few years back gave statistics in church about the current congregation size and the size in ten years minus those that are old and might not be living in ten years. It was very sobering. Our church is mostly older people also. We are also considering looking for a different church but for none of the reason you have HB. (i may divulge more later)
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