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8K views 26 replies 11 participants last post by  tator 
#1 ·
There is something that concerns/puzzles me and I would like to know what the members here have on their mind in regards to this. I'm probably not the most religious person here but throughout my life I've heard many different things about the apocolypse and prophecies and such. One thing that I've always thought of was something about the "water on fire". Would the Gulf oil spill and burning be a sign of that? Also does anyone believe that God can become angry with pollution, violence, corruption and other negative actions and show signs of it through natural disasters (earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc.) Now keep in mind that I do not have any intentions of offending anyone here nor do I want to start a war of words. I just ask that any responses be kept civil in regards to the respect of others. Thanks.
 
#2 ·
Hey timberghost!
I think you had a can of worms and let them set out in the 90 degree heat for three days. lol
What you ask is a very complex question. Also very contraversial.
I don"T know anything about the water on fire but I will look it up.
As for pollution, violence, corruption and other negative human actions,
God hates sin,for the most part what we are dealing with here he gave us this world and we are to be good stewards of it
but some of us want to use it for their own personal advantage and gain of wealth to the detriment of others. One of the Ten Commandments is to love your brother (neighbor) as yourself. What does BP love in the Gulf, you and I or their dough? Violence is pretty much a no brainer if you again believe the mentioned commandment. Corruption again becomes another no brainer, if you loved your neighbor as yourself you wouldn"t steal, swindle or take bribes. I feel any action which shows lack of love towards others is, well, sinful. I know I sound like the preacher you don"t want to hear but unfortunately, I speak from my own less than perfect path therefore, I and almost everyone are experts "in their own field" if you get my drift. We all do stuff we regret but fortunately I have found a Savoir in Jesus.
As for the natural disasters around the world, God is God, supreme in all He does. Again in the Bible it is stated that there will be all these things until the Lord returns. Sometimes we just don"t get it and He wakes us up!
Just an old boys opinion
daddus1
 
#5 · (Edited)
Hey timberghost!
I think you had a can of worms and let them set out in the 90 degree heat for three days. lol
What you ask is a very complex question. Also very contraversial.
I don"T know anything about the water on fire but I will look it up.
As for pollution, violence, corruption and other negative human actions,
God hates sin,for the most part what we are dealing with here he gave us this world and we are to be good stewards of it
but some of us want to use it for their own personal advantage and gain of wealth to the detriment of others. One of the Ten Commandments is to love your brother (neighbor) as yourself. What does BP love in the Gulf, you and I or their dough? Violence is pretty much a no brainer if you again believe the mentioned commandment. Corruption again becomes another no brainer, if you loved your neighbor as yourself you wouldn"t steal, swindle or take bribes. I feel any action which shows lack of love towards others is, well, sinful. I know I sound like the preacher you don"t want to hear but unfortunately, I speak from my own less than perfect path therefore, I and almost everyone are experts "in their own field" if you get my drift. We all do stuff we regret but fortunately I have found a Savoir in Jesus.
As for the natural disasters around the world, God is God, supreme in all He does. Again in the Bible it is stated that there will be all these things until the Lord returns. Sometimes we just don"t get it and He wakes us up!
Just an old boys opinion
daddus1
Well said...... The water on fire I believe is mentioned in the book of Revelation, along with a bunch of other horrors. Alot of people take these things literally and believe this is all yet to come. There are all kinds of books out on the End Times, the Beast, and all that goes with it. I was taught that the book of Revelation was written for the people of that time and in a style of writing called Apocaliptic writing (however ya spell it). It was symbolism for what was happening to the christians from the Roman empire. People of that time was use to that style of writing and it wasn't a mystery to them at all. There are several other places in the Bible that kind of writing can be found. Revelation is actually a book of hope. The main message in the book is "God wins". As far as God using natural disasters and such as warnings or whatever, yes He will, if He desides to. It happened many times in the Old Testament. But....we can talk about it all until the cows come home. No one knows for sure but God.
 
#4 ·
i am not a thological scoller, but hear is my take on it. it may or may not be the end of times, but ether way there is nothing we can do about it? we cant stop Gods will. all we could do if we knew it was the end of time would be exept Jesus as our savior, repent for our sins, and live out the rest of our time hear with our friends and family making sure they know how much we love them. BUT we should already be doing thoughs things.
 
#6 ·
Jesus gave to John the visions described in the book of Revelation that we might know what will soon come to pass. The book of Revelation will be fullfilled exactly as it has been penned.

I will have to take a look, but I dont recall anything pertaining to water on fire. it is written that a third of the waters of the world will become blood.

It is important when quoting scriptures to devulge of what version of bible you are referencing. there are some you should steer clear of. I generally refer to KJ, NKJ and NIV
 
#7 ·
Don't know TG about the fire on water issue. I do know our's is a loving God that one day got mad at us and relieved the world of sinners. He then sent One down to save us for all eternity. I don't think he looks at us today and is pleased but he made us a promise and he will carry it out. That's good enough for me to believe.
 
#8 ·
Timberghost, I think asking questions is a great thing to do when studying the Bible. I have been a Christian since I was 11 (19 years) and there are still things that I don't understand. The book of Revelation is a tricky one. If you notice, alot of Pators don't do many sermons on that book because of this.
The world we live in is not a good one. I do believe that God is disappointed in alot of people for the way they live their life. As Christians, it is our job to tell them about God and how he sent his son Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. There are alot of things that God "puts us through" in our lives. Death, divorce, loss of job, floods, hurricanes, etc.... I would not say that he does these things beceause he does not love us. God loves everyone, after all, he MADE us. I do believe though that the day of his reckoning is QUICKLY coming. For christians, this is awesome. For the rest of the world, this is scary.
Keep in mind one thing... I think of this every time I hear someone talk bad about God... When Jesus comes back some day, EVERY KNEE WILL BOW. This includes everyone on this earth, and everyone that has ever been on this earth. this will happen because HE is LORD, no one else.
As for when he's coming back, I have no clue, But I CAN'T wait, personally...
 
#9 ·
The thing to remember is Satan caused sin when he tempted Eve. God allows sin to happen but is incapable of it. The Bible states that Satan is the prince of this world and creates all the bad that happens. That doesn't mean God can't use bad things for a greater good.
 
#11 ·
The thing to remember is Satan caused sin when he tempted Eve. God allows sin to happen but is incapable of it. The Bible states that Satan is the prince of this world and creates all the bad that happens. That doesn't mean God can't use bad things for a greater good.
would a storm that wipes out a town and kills a bunch of people be a creation of satan? serious question.I am a child of GOD that has alot of questions and think to much sometimes,Im not trying to stir anything just wondering what ya thought
 
#10 ·
well put guppy...
that is probably the single most toughest thing to have to explain to a non-believer- why does a loving God allow bad things to happen? Death is the ultimate God-turner-away-from (if that's a slogan??) I have known people who are STRONG believers but when a close loved one unexpectedly passes, they turn on God. It's scary because I have never had someone extremely close to me pass away. I can only hope and pray that my faith in God will get me through it.
Non-believers also think that loss of jobs, bankrupcy, gambling debts, etc... are all because God doesn't love them or have time for them. God allows us to LIVE OUR LIVES how we want. And ultimately, he judges us on our lives and if we are Christians or not and if we lived our life in a Christ-like manner.
It's just extremely tough for a believer to explain to a non-believer why God sometimes allows bad things to happen.
 
#12 ·
We are living in a world that is what it is. Man was put here and allowed to evolve with it. Mother nature is simply a part of this earth and something we can't control. I know when children of God pass away and our grief is overwelming asking for God's love and hand of healing will take some of our burden away. Someday I'll pass along some reasons why the above is without question true.
 
#16 ·
Nothing happens that God does not know about and nothing happens that God is not in control about. No matter how tough a situation anyone finds themselves in they can rest assured that it wasn't by accident.

We dont know when our time to die will come. We are never promised tomorrow. Thats why its so important to get Eternity settled now. There will come a time when our time is up. If asking God for forgiveness for sin is still on your to do list when that moment comes you will not be in a better place.
 
#17 ·
We are sinners every day and not asking for forgiveness seems to me to be a bit one sided. I do not get to far into the religion of others and can't go to deep in scripture but I believe asking for forgiveness every day keeps my connection with God timely. Every day I make mistakes as a mere mortal human, simply asking for forgiveness for those errors doesn't put me on the lower end of the list, in my opinion. Communication is the key and how you do it is all that matters. That's my religion guide book.
 
#19 ·
Well HM, I'm glad to hear that you are still praying everyday to God. I would encourage you to continue. There are areas in my Christian life where I don't like "hearing" particular lessons. Every now and then in my adult sunday school class, we'll hit a topic that I don't like to talk about. It happens. The Bible touches every possible area in our lives and many people don't like that. (i'm not saying this of you HM).

What HM is saying about satan is 100% TRUE people. There IS a GOD and there IS a devil. If you don't believe in God you are playing for satan's team. It's just that simple. That's what is so scary. I know SO MANY people (including family) that believe just because they are "good people" they don't have to believe in God or pray to him, or go to church or worship and read his word. But that's the whole point. God holds us all accountable and judgement day will come for all of us. Just to "believe" there is a God is not enough. You have to live a Christian life, worship His Name and most importantly, have a relationship with Him. That's what he wants. That's what he requires. Many times I find myself just "getting by" when it comes to being a Christian, and I have to step back and get that close relationship back.
I can honestly say if you believe in Jesus Christ and that God sent Him to die on the cross for our sins, your life will change.... for the BETTER. But it's not just going to happen over night. We've become a society who expects things RIGHT NOW. That's not the way God works. He doesn't use our sense of time. He uses His. Many young Christians fall away into their old lifestyle b/c they think God isn't doing anything in their lives. And the truth is they didn't even give him a chance! Pray to him to change your life for the better, he will give you UNBELIEVABLE strength and courage and he'll help you through the temptations in your life. He WILL NOT allow a temptation to come to you that is too big. He will allow hard times to come though. Because that's when He wants us to rely on him the most. Being tempted is an everyday thing. Saying "NO" sometimes requires God's help. I know it does in my life.

HM... I hope to hear this story someday... if you want feel free to email me anytime if you like. tay44lor@gmail.com
 
#18 ·
Tator, today is not the day. However, for those who do not believe in the devil are in for a big/nasty surprise. He comes for those at their weakest moments and without help you will be consumed by him. We'll save those moments for another time on why I know there is a dark side to life/earth and it's the opposite of GOD. It will literally scare the you know what out of most! These moments/attacks do revolve around death of love ones, even a challenge. Enough for now on this subject, it gives me the creeps to think back. Just know there is a strong dark force out there and it's not from the Star Wars movie! :surprised:
 
#20 ·
I tend to like to know my enemy when going into a fight, I think it gives one a big edge. Knowing you will win gives the confidence to engage. I think TG knows this when he steps into the ring. If you apply this thought process in everyday life challenges become defeated before they can mount a serious attack. About as profound as I can get, maybe I don't know. Life is very interesting anyway.
 
#21 ·
Tator. im going to have to agree with you on one of your points. and disagree with you on another. yes it is sad to see good people die, before they hav had the chance to exept jesus as there savior, because we all know that without doing so they will not be going to a better place. but i do have to disagree with our point of view about just beliveing not being enugh. once you have exepted god, and jesus as your savor, you will be going to a better place when you die. that is why he is called our savior. not saying you can just say it, not realy bieleve it, go out and commit horable crimes and expect a free ride to heaven. but i do bileve thay once you have truely exepted jesus as your savor, let him into your life, pray for forgivness for your real sins (not every little stupid thing you have ever done, but were you did do some really meesed up stuff.) and try not to do thoughs things any more, and pray for forgivness if you fail. then you are saved. i do not bieleve you must read the bible front to back 10 times, or go to chirch every sunday, or try your best to be mother teressa to go to heaven. you only have to truley exept jesus, and try to be a better person than you were before exepting him and your going to heaven.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Hunt NH, with all due respect I think you misunderstood me! I absolutely agree with most of what you are saying. Your last sentence is puzzling me though because yes I do believe that if you except Jesus and try to be a better person you will be on the right path, but you have to have a relationship with him as well. That's what He requires. That relationship involves prayer, reading scripture, congregating with other Christians and most importantly witnessing His Name to others who are unsaved.

When you are saved by the grace of God, you are going to Heaven. In my beliefs (Baptist) we believe once saved always saved. Some religions believe that you can lose your salvation, this to me is false. So I agree with you on that 100%. I also did not say you HAD to read your Bible front to back 10 times through or go to church EVERY Sunday, but God does want us to do that. God also does want us to live a Christ-like life so if that means living like Mother Teressa then so be it. My point is, God wants a relationship with us. In his word, the Bible, it says over and over again that he wants us to congregate with other Christians. To help each other out because this world is a crazy, bad place at times. What most people think of when they hear these passages is "going to Church". God also wants us to learn his word and live our life accordingly. How are we going to learn His word if we don't read the Bible? Now, I can honesly say, I've never sat down and read the entire Bible through from front to back (but I am currently reading the Bible through in a year). So I absolutely agree with most of the points you made.

Now that said... When we get to Heaven, God has made it very clear that everyone will be judged and "rewarded" diferently. For example, if you follow Christ and his teaching, have a strong relationship with him, witness to the unsaved, and live a more Christ-like life than most people you are going to be heavily rewarded in Heaven. Whereas if you live a life where you are constantly in and out of sin and always struggling to do the right thing and trying but often failing at living a Christ-like life, then your reward in Heaven will not be as great. But, like I said before, once you are saved you are going to Heaven.... you just might have more to answer to on judgement day than others.

I think a big point we are also missing is the fact that God wants us to witness to others as well. If you go your whole life and witness to no one, then what good were you to God other than to save yourself? In His eyes that would be a selfish act, you would be in Heaven but you can bet He's going to ask you why you didn't proclaim His Name.

I honesly, also, believe that God is going to ask us, "why didn't you attend my house most Sundays" but fortunately I do go to Church every Sunday, and not because I think I'm more holy than the next guy, but because I need that in my life. I have to have it. It gets me pumped up and refocused on the important things in my life. He wants us to have that close relationship with our brothers and sisters and He wants us to study His word together. This is my belief from what I was taught. Just merely going to Church every Sunday does not mean you are going to Heaven, you have to worship His Name the right way and do all the other things that are required of you. Going to Church is something I WANT to do, not something I have to do.

Trying to be a better person is also important, but I can honesly say you aren't going to get far if you don't use His scripture and pray to Him to help you. There are so many things in this world that can tempt us and draw us away from God. That's why Prayer, scripture reading and Church are so important. They draw us closer to Him. As far as Church, there is strength in numbers... God wants us to be strong together and support each other. That's why we have a great support system at my Church, it's because God is the head of it.
 
#22 ·
NH, I can relate to some of your points. I tend to keep my thoughts beliefs pretty close to the vest so to speak. I am not a need to be born again type. Just a believer and that's good enough for me. I also think it's great for those who exercise their faith in a more public fashion. We all get to chose how we believe/celebrate His glory!
 
#24 ·
I believe we are in the times where Christ says (these will be the labor pains)... just so much calamity and frusration in the world today, and the enemy is really on the prowl, like a lion ready to devour, Satan knows his time is short and he comes at us full force "no holds barred".
I myself struggle with addictions till this day even though I have given my heart to Christ... sometimes I feel like such a hypocrite, but I keep plugging, so please if you feel obliged keep me in your prayers as I will do the same for any of you who ask.
 
#25 ·
scentman,
I'm there for you in prayer and beyond.
When Jesus was asked "who is my brother?" It turns out we are all brothers.
Scentman keep pluging and do not give up. God stands right next to you as we speak but if He isn't guess who moved? Keep the faith, bro!
Don't sweat it God has it all under control.
I'm always looking for what is the problem, so I carry a mirror in my pocket so I can see what it usually is.
IHS
daddus
 
#26 ·
dont get me wrong Tator. im not saying all thats stuff aint good. im just saying that is is not all required for salvation. And that i dont think that you need to strive for perfection to please god. i will more than likely will never be a chirch on sunday guy. i used to go, but never felt like god was there. not saying i did not bielieve at the time, just saying i did not feel his presance there. and wile there i met so many people who would be the perfect christian wile there on sunday, but come monday there were the worst back stabing talk trash about eachother people iv ever met. Again not saying you are one of them, or if you go to chirch that you are one of them. iv always felt the presance of god wile out in nature, enjpying the glorry of his creation of it. wether it be sitting in the tree stand and all the tranquility of the woods. standing on a river bank watching the way the water rolls off the rocks, and the way the water ripples at the lower part of were it pools. or sitting around a campfire. to me god is in all these places. also i dont like being preached at. i like having conversations about him much more. that is way i do not go to chirch.
i do feel that i have a relationship with jesus. i do pray to him. more often than not i am not prying for myself, usualy for people around me. when i do pray for myself it more often than not is not for spaciffic thing, but more for guidence, wisdome, and strength. though i am guilty of praying for a good harvest wile out hunting. i also some times feel call to do something by him, and when i do, i listen.
as for congrgating with other christans. is that not what were are doing right now, right hear in the chirstan corrner? i aslo talk to other christans at work.
as for witnessing to the unsaved. i think going about it in the wrong way can do more harm than good. i make no secret about the fact that i am a christain. if someone wants to hear about God, im not afraid to talk to them about him. or if they find there way into a conversation about him that i am having with a fellow chirstain. but i think trying to walk up to randome people and preach his word to them is counter productive. if you make them uncomforatable in the way you aproch them, they will hear non of what you have to say, and will not want to hear it again in the future. kind of like how most people feel when mormons know on there door at 6 am on a saterday. all they will want to do is push you away. just what i have seen and experianced, your experiances may be different.
now yes i know i will have to answer for my sins. i have prayed for forgivness for them, and know i still sin. but i do not sin nearly as much, or as baddly as before truly exepting christ as my savior. i do not try to live a perfect live, but i do my best not to break any of the ten comandments. and when i do i imeadiatly pray for forgivenss for it and go back to trying not to do it again. i do not worry about other things like swaring, smoking, and drinking. and what not. i figure if god was to worryed about them he would have made more than 10. allthough i do try to live a better life. i was a real animal before exepting christ. now i do think i am a good guy.
 
#27 ·
Hunt NH, I know that you are a good guy! You're one guy who knows alot about everything on here, and I mean that! I'm sorry to hear that the church you were plugged into wasn't a good one. I know exactly what you mean about God not being present there and how the members were often hypocrites of what they were doing on Sunday. Now that said, there are many churches out there that are not like that. Mine, for example is one that I can feel God's presence every Sunday in. We have a strong congregation and we do have those people who struggle. The important thing to remember is this, no one is perfect. I in no way am saying that I am. I sin everyday. That's life, and that's human nature. But the difference between us and a non-believer is that they don't ask for forgiveness for their sins so therefore they are going to have to answer for what they did on this earth. For you and I (and Christians alike) when we ask God for forgiveness, it's over with and done with. He doesn't hold that over our heads, and it won't come up on judgement day. Now if we don't repent from that sin, that's another situation! ha!
Believe me, I'm far from perfect. Now that said, I do try to live a Christian life. I'm not saying in order to go to Heaven you have to live a perfect life... but you do need to strive to be Christ-like- I do believe in that.
Witnessing God's word is something I struggle with. Like you said, it can be offensive to some people if it's delivered the wrong way. It's best to ease into the conversation and not put the person on pressure. Also, I try to talk to them one on one rather than in a group setting or at a restaurant or something. That way, there's only two eyes looking at them.
Like you, I too rejoice in God's wonder when I'm outside. It's amazing what he has accomplished on this earth! I can only imagine what Heaven will be like! This, however, isn't my sanctuary. I believe in going to Church on Sundays because that's how I was brought up. It's something that I live now. WHen I was a teen and in my very early 20's, I hated going to Church... I loved God, but hated having to go to Church. It was boring to me and seemed repeatative. It wasn't until just before I got married that I realized that Church can be SO much more than just a building that I attend every Sunday morning. There are so many activities and relationships that I enjoy now that I never knew I could have.
As for drinking, smoking, and swearing. As for me, I don't do two of the three any more and that's drinking and smoking. Smoking was honestly too expensive and I hated the effects on my body (tired and coughing all the time). The beer was harder to give up. I enjoyed it alot. However, my grandpa was an alcoholic and that has always scared me. Plus I made a vow to myself that I would not drink alcohol from the time my wife got pregnant on till the day I die. That was just my promise to myself. Now, do I think having a beer every now and then hurts? No, but I'm just not into that anymore. I have buddies that drink alot, but I don't go to the drinking parties anymore. I still hand out with them and golf and hunt w/them, but I took the drinking part out for me, and they respect that.
The swearing part is hard for me. I do not swear outloud though.... I cuss to myself. I know that sounds weird, but if I'm out working or doing something, I talk to myself alot, and when something goes wrong, I have a bad habit of cussing. I do not cuss around my wife and child though nor any other people. That is a struggle I have to deal with and I'm getting better at. I work with a guy who cusses every other word. It's just childish I think to cuss that much. He's a grown man with 3 kids. After knowing this guy for 3 years, and having been around him alot, he knows I don't cuss and I have noticed his cussing getting less and less.
I want to be absolutely clear here hunt nh,,,, I believe many of the things to you, but it seems like we just have a difference of opinion on some things. I am in no way trying to tell you how to live your life! I promise that. I do know, however, that you WILL be in Heaven one day because you have been saved. God bless you Brother and I enjoy talking about this!
 
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