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Old 07-20-2013, 12:19 AM
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I am a sinner because my name is not Jesus Christ. He is the only person to ever live on this earth that did not sin. He was perfect. Are there days where I sin very little? Yes, but the very thought of myself not being a sinner puts me on the same plane as Jesus- which I am not. I am in no way saying I am a bad person, but a sinner? Yes. Sinning doesn't condemn you to hell- if you are saved. In order to get to heaven you have to believe in one God, the only God (this is where I think we fork off in the road) and that God sent His Son to die on the cross for all man-kind's sin (since Jesus was without sin) and then He rose from the dead and ascended back into heaven.

Preforming good deeds does not "cover up" sin. Sinning can take place in actions, thoughts, words, etc... I can't tell you if and when you have sinned, but do I believe every human sins? Yes. I'm not condoning sin, but the idea of a human being without sin would suggest that you believe there are others on this planet that are Christ's equal? (this is the other place where we majorly fork in the road)

Jesus was not just some 'wise man'- He is my Savior.

You are correct on the parks and rec and deer thing... but then again, I guess those trails wouldn't be possible if God never made those people and animals huh?

It's obvious you are set in your beliefs and it's obvious I am set in my beliefs. The reason I pray for you is not because I feel bad for you or anything like that. I believe you do believe there is a God and I believe you are a good person. I never doubted that. I believe God loves you just the same as me. I believe I am no better than you are. Are our beliefs similar, in a way yes, but in a big way, no. I pray for many things in my life, including the people on the deerhuntersclub website. I pray for HM, BB, GFD and all the other guys and gals on here. Believe me, praying for you does not "take away" from any other topic I pray about- I don't mind it at all.
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Last edited by tator; 07-20-2013 at 12:23 AM.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2013, 12:33 AM
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I am a sinner because my name is not Jesus Christ.
Then wouldn't it be easiest just to change your name?

Sorry, I know that's just egging you on a bit. I'm glad you have your religion, as long as it is a religion of tolerance, peace, love and understanding. Religion has done so much to divide this world, and has brought so much pain, suffering and condemnation solely in the name of "my god is better than your god". Frankly a tolerant person shouldn't give a darn about what his neighbor believes or doesn't believe as long as it makes him or her a good person.

And that is good enough for me.
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Old 07-20-2013, 03:13 PM
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What I meant by “I am a sinner because my name is not Jesus Christ” is that I am not His equal. I am in no way perfect like he was. God made Him perfect because God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one. Jesus was God in human form. The holy spirit is something that lives inside me because I have faith that He is my savior and my Lord (John 14:16-17). He is my strength and He is my protector. God gave all humans one simple thing that has caused all of us to be sinners and that one thing is free will. He gave us the ability to believe what we want to believe. He gave us the ability to act how we want and to do what we want, when we want to do it. He’s not a puppeteer nor are we puppets of His. He wants us to choose Him as the center of our lives. To acknowledge and believe that He sent His only Son to die on the cross for our sins- which in turn wipes all sin away- as long as we are saved and we repent. To just acknowledge that God is God and never to worship Him, in my beliefs, is not enough. God wants us to have a close and personal relationship with Him. He wants us to come to Him and to seek Him. Ever since I have established a secure relationship with Him, He speaks to me and guides and directs me. Do I screw up from time to time? Sure. Am I perfect? Heck no- because I’m not Jesus.

Secondly, to say that I am religious is not 100% accurate. I am a Christian- which means I follow God and only God. It also means that I believe there is only one God. If that wasn’t a belief of mine, then I would not be a Christian. Are there Christians out there that are not obedient to God? Sure there are. God loves all people the same. He loves you just as much as he loves me. He loves people who are atheists just as much as He does me. His love for us is unconditional- it is Agape. BUT, the fact still remains that He gave us free will to choose Him or turn from Him. That doesn’t change His love for us. To say that I am religious tends to lead people to think that I believe there’s a God and that’s it. To me, that is not enough. I am more than just a person who believes in God. I am His child. I am His follower and His witness. I have a relationship with Him. My job as a Christian is to worship Him with all my love and energy and to help lead others to Him.

I do not, in any way, mean to say your gods are not important. That would be very disrespectful and hurtful and I am not trying to do that at all. I agree with you that people can live their lives and be happy and not be a Christian- but sadly, when they die, that’s the end of that. I have chosen to follow God here on earth so that I may go to heaven and be with my creator forever. I choose to follow God because when I die, my TRUE life begins! I do not fear death, does it scare me? Occasionally yes, but I know where I’m going when I die. I’m going to my creator. I’m going to the creator of this old earth, the heavens, the skies, the oceans, the mountains, the fish in the waters and the animals on the earth and sky, and most importantly the creator of mankind. This body of mine will be renewed and I will live an eternity in heaven – which makes these short years here on earth almost meaningless when compared to the time I’ll get to spend in heaven. But God gave us a purpose to be here on earth,,, it’s not meaningless, it’s to win others to His name.

The reason I “give a darn” about what you believe is because I want to see you in heaven someday. I want you to experience the overwhelming joy and love that I have in my life for Christ- but I can guarantee you, you have not experienced Christ's joy in its fullness until He is the center of your life.

I hope these verses help you understand what I believe:
Isaiah 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is no other, besides me there is no God;
1 Corinthians 8:6 Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
James 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
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...and on that day when my strength is failing, the end draws near and my times has come, still my soul will sing Your praise unending, ten thousand years and then forevermore!

Last edited by tator; 07-20-2013 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 07-21-2013, 12:57 AM
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The reason I “give a darn” about what you believe is because I want to see you in heaven someday.

Isaiah 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is no other, besides me there is no God;
1 Corinthians 8:6 Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
James 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Actually I am in heaven every day. Every day I watch my son play soccer, every day that I hold hands with my wife, every day that I live up to being as good a person as my dogs think I am, every day that I just enjoy the family life. Anything after that is just icing on the cake.

Good quotes. Trouble is the quotes are only valid if the book is right. You believe it is, I believe it isn't. Like I stated above, a whole lot of people in the world think that their book trumps your book. Some day at the end of days, it'll be fun to find out who was right. The engineer in me loves a new challenge at that point.
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Old 07-21-2013, 02:26 PM
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I think it's great that you see heavenly things everyday here on earth. I'm like you in that regard, I try not to take anything for granted- even though it's easy to do. Especially time with my wife and kids. Sometimes I get wrapped up in what I want to do and forget that my family is more important. I would, however, have to disagree that this earth is not actually heaven. In heaven there is no wrong doing, no sin, no death, no murder or rape or illness. Obviously, we'd have to agree that all those things happen here on earth. So there is a difference.

The verses I quoted are ones that I hope would help you understand my point of view- that's all. I do trust in this book and I do live by it. I find it extremely interesting that our world puts so much faith and trust in so many other things, but believing in a book that is all about God's love, compassion and most importantly His Son's sacrifice for us is not even considered. It's not like the Bible requires you to bend over backwards or something to become a Christian.?? All you have to do is believe. I just find it interesting that in our world today, so many people are searching for the next "big thing" to believe in, but when Christianity is brought up it's like "nahh".

Sadly, I would have to agree with you about "a whole lot of people in the world think that their book trumps your book". The only problem is, I don't ever hear any truth coming from "their" book OR all I'm read or shown is basically someone's interpretation of the Bible- which I often find disturbing because the Bible wasn't mean to be a fill in the blank type book. I witness the people who tell me about "their" book and I look at their lives and I don't see much happiness. I see them trying to be happy, I see them struggling constantly, but not ever experiencing the joy they could have by having Christ as their Savior. Sure you still struggle even as a Christian, but when you have God on your side, your battles and troubles become easier.

When it comes to believing in Jesus as God's Son ... I would change my beliefs in a heart beat if someone could actually prove to me that their god actually is the real way to heaven. But, that also has never happened. I talk to people who believe that objects are gods or money is god or even people in their life are a god. To me, as a Christian, this is silly. I have a book that can back up any and all arguments made towards my God. Those other books, nahh. My book was written by people who were spoken to by God and who witnessed Jesus' teaching. Yes, my book is old, very, very old, but I guess with the other god's books being newer that makes it easier to believe in or more credible or more relevant to our lifestyles "now-a-days" ? Interesting.

One of my main questions to non-believers is what do you want out of your "god". Every time it's "love, patience, understanding, forgiveness, mercy, glory, etc..." Well guess what, my God has all that and more.

Being a Christian requires me to take the Bible literally and to not change it. Sadly, many people in our world today change the Bible around so that it fits their life. They make it say something that it was NEVER intended to say- basically taking it out of context. The Bible can be a very confusing book to follow. It can be a scary thing to tackle. But with God's help, He will make it make sense and He'll make it fit your life. I can't tell you how many times I have been struggling with something in my life and I'll turn to the Bible and find a verse within minutes that lifts me up. I challenge you and any other people to try this the next time you encounter a problem in your life that you need help with from a "higher being". First, get your book out and spend 5 minutes to truly find a passage that fits and see if it truly gives you peace and then pray to your god and ask for help. Then spend 5 minutes in the Bible and pray to my God that He will show Himself. If you do this honestly, God will show Himself to you.

The Bible was never intended to just be some "good" reading material. It's life's textbook. It covers everything from the beginning of time until the end. It's a history book as well as one that offers information on the future- all while helping you deal with trouble and problems of today.

So to wrap up, I would have to say the same to you about your "book". It can only be validated if it is right. I hopefully have shared some instances in my life where my book has been proven right to me... I would like to hear some instances when yours has been right to you? Once again, my goal is to get to heaven and there is only one way to get there and that is through Jesus Christ. NO one gets to God without going through Jesus first. If you don't acknowledge Jesus as God's Son, why would God acknowledge you in heaven? So, if there's another way to get to heaven, I'm all ears at this point. And honestly, if it's valid and true, I'll join. But understand this... my God has acted on my life, He as done things in my life that are not easily explained. I have proof of my God's power- just look at my life. That's all the validation I need. You see there is no talking me out of my salvation... unless you have proof.

BTW simple Q for ya - just curious, do you believe in Jesus Christ? Not to follow Him or anything, but do you believe He is God's Son?
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...and on that day when my strength is failing, the end draws near and my times has come, still my soul will sing Your praise unending, ten thousand years and then forevermore!

Last edited by tator; 07-21-2013 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:36 PM
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All I can say about that is If you believe that JESUS died for your sins and rose again Then your good. If anybody or religion don't beleave in Jesus as GODs son then you aint going nowere. ...................
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.................
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
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Old 07-21-2013, 10:04 PM
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All I can say about that is If you believe that JESUS died for your sins and rose again Then your good. If anybody or religion don't beleave in Jesus as GODs son then you aint going nowere. ...................
You are absolutely correct.
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:25 AM
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BTW simple Q for ya - just curious, do you believe in Jesus Christ? Not to follow Him or anything, but do you believe He is God's Son?
That's a loaded question along the lines of "have you stopped beating your wife" -- any answer admits to something. What I believe is that some guy existed at that time back in history, and became the focal point of a religious movement in the same fashion as Mohammed did among the (then) Persians. Records of history at that time are so very sketchy. All religions have to employ some form of mysticism because if it is all plain and factual and proveable then it's just science, not religion. Heck, we can't even find true verifiable records of Joseph Smith and he existed in America less than 200 years ago.

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One of my main questions to non-believers is what do you want out of your "god".
Actually, I don't "want" anything out of my gods, and I don't worship them as gods. I believe their spirits provide guidance, wisdom, consolation, advice and so forth, but that any decisions that I make are mine and my responsibility only. What I "want" from them is nothing. I acknowledge thier existence in the things they do, but I realize that only I and fate are in control of my life based on the decisions that I make and external factors beyond my control. I need nothing from them. I am responsible for my happiness.

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I would, however, have to disagree that this earth is not actually heaven.
Now that actually implies that you think there is something "better", and if there is then the subsequent implication is that your life here isn't truly fulfilled. I can attest to the fact that after life on Earth here with my family, my wife, my life, my friends, my pets then anything else afterwards is going to be a major let down. It just don't get any better than this. What can anyone or any god offer that is better than the simple joy of looking into my wife's eyes at night and holding her hand?

I enjoy your quotes, but let me caution you that it's just a book. And it's interpretation and actual language has changed so many times throughout history. It's a good book and a good story, don't get me wrong. I hope it helps more folks lead a good life. But it's still just a book.
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:01 AM
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And that's where this discussion stops. After your final posting, my thoughts are confirmed that we are no where near being similar in beliefs. Feel free to contact me anytime in the future if you have any questions or want to discuss anything.

I'm not trying to offend you, but do you consider yourself an atheist? I've been re-reading many of your postings and I have not read anything that acknowledges a higher being that is your "god"- I've only found relationships and time spend outdoors. If you don't want to answer I completely understand- I'm not trying to disrespect you. I understand that being an atheist means you do not believe in a supreme being, but I struggled to find who your god is in your postings. Just curious
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Old 07-27-2013, 12:34 AM
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This is for anyone and everyone. This song speaks exactly what my faith is about. I challenge anyone, if you are on the fence about God in your life or what to believe, please, turn this song on... by yourself, sit in the dark and pray that God will show Himself to you. Listen to the words of this song. The song talk about God's characteristics, God's love, God's mercy. This song almost brings tears to my eyes every time I hear it. God truly is awesome! Please, just do this one time. Pray to God or even better, just sit quietly and listen to this song and open your mind and heart and watch God work. All I ask is that you be willing to listen to Him if He speaks to you. My open invitation is still there as well- if you want to talk to me ANYTIME about anything, please email me, tay44lor@gmail.com I would love to tell you about what God has done in my life and what He can do in yours. Enjoy the song, close your eyes and open your heart..... because there are 10 thousand reasons to follow the one true God!
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...and on that day when my strength is failing, the end draws near and my times has come, still my soul will sing Your praise unending, ten thousand years and then forevermore!

Last edited by tator; 07-27-2013 at 12:37 AM.
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