Another Poacher

[Turtle]

People spend a lot on money on it for sure, but very few make money from hunting. Those that can afford all the best of the best aren't looking for the profit but for bragging rights. I'd say all the low light visibility scopes and what not out there now are also a contributing factor. Seem to hear more and more shots just after dark than I ever have in the past. These people I don't think consider themselves to be poachers. They seem to consider it just an advantage of better equipment, they paid for the extra half hour of hunting and are entitled to it in their opinion. Their wrong, the rules and laws are the same for everyone.

In any event I think very few see hunting as a way to make money. It's the experience, the outdoors. Hunting is not cheap and in my opinion would be very difficult to make a profit. How often are you going to get the buck of a lifetime that will pay the big bucks. Thats why I believe quite a few poachers are poachers of opportunity. They didn't set out to poach but when the time came they didn't have morals, discipline, or integrity to resist.

You throw all the people together that think the rules don't apply to them, add the ones that think they'll get away with it this one time and you have your poachers. I don't believe I personally would have a problem making the right decision , but try to keep myself out of these situations. No low light scopes, and if I don't have license, permission, season is open and everything to make it legal then I not carrying a weapon.

[ronn]

I agree Turtle. I'm not out there to make $$. That being said if I was fortunate enough to take a buck that could bring in $$, without selling it, I would do so in order to maybe go on that hunt of a life time. Once in a while I start to think about how much it costs per lb for a turkey, then I stop cause it just sounds stupid. The hunt is the main reason and I can't put a dollar value on that.

Like I tell my kids, sometimes its hard to do the right thing. Sometimes its not what you want to do, but right is right and anything else isn't. In this world the only thing you truly have is your word and your integrity, everything else can disappear so you don't want to ruin the only things that are yours and yours only by choosing to do the wrong thing. We all make mistakes and how we take ownership of those mistakes shows who we are. Its to easier at times to choose the wrong thing but the consequences are huge to your integrity and your word.

People get wrapped up in all the things going on that some just forget this. Others just don't give a crap.
These are the guys that ruin it for the rest of us. These are the guys that make people think that making $$ is bad or wrong because it pushes them in the wrong direction. They don't give a crap about right or wrong. These are the guys that non-hunters see, making them lump all hunters in that don't give a carp crowd.

I went through the bow hunters safety course with my son recently. I didn't have to but I did. They said some thing that really bothered me. They basically were saying as a hunter we should fly low under the radar. Keep a low profile. Don't attract attention. I couldn't disagree more. I think good hunters should be more vocal. Stand up and say the slob hunter is not what hunting is all about. I make it a point to let people know that I'm a hunter and give them the reasons why. I try to show them that these slobs aren't what its about. Maybe this silence form the good hunters has helped these poachers get away with their way of doing things. Maybe we need to stand up and be proud to be a hunter and take back hunting from these slob hunters and poachers.

Booger! my soap box just collapsed.

[joel the signman]

"Like I tell my kids, sometimes its hard to do the right thing. Sometimes its not what you want to do, but right is right and anything else isn't. In this world the only thing you truly have is your word and your integrity, everything else can disappear so you don't want to ruin the only things that are yours and yours only by choosing to do the wrong thing. We all make mistakes and how we take ownership of those mistakes shows who we are. Its to easier at times to choose the wrong thing but the consequences are huge to your integrity and your word." I couldnt agree more

[Hunting Man]

Turtle, what I have trying to say is the new poachers of today have much more to gain by the poaching of ilegal bucks and selling them for profit, there are buyers for them. The average hunter like us who follows the rules have very limited chances to make money for hunting. In the event we harvest a gigantic rack and all is legal and good, use it for whatever you want. My point has and continues to be that poachers have money on their minds when shooting big rack bucks. Poachers are poachers! Industry has promoted a lot of the greed and will continue to do so. Ego doesn't pay the poacher bills. This could be a geographic issue, because the money for bucks is well known in the midwest. But I totally agree with the overall concensus, we are what we are, how others judge us, keeps us in check in the integrity, honesty, and credibility department. We must to the best of our ability do whats right 100% of the time, if that happens, we never have a reason to look over our shoulder.

[ronn]

If there is $$ to be made illegally some will try and do so. Much like bear the gaul bladder poachers in TN,VA,WV a few years back. My point is its the criminals fault for the illegal act, not the animal, not the $$, not he industry, no one else but the criminal.

[Turtle]

Huntingman Thanks, I can smell what you're cooking.
Everyone here seems to have good points on many causes of why poaching occurs. The one thing we all seemed to agree on is it's wrong and we should be less tolerant of those that do. Unfortunately this seems to be an elite forum. Thought I would show some posts from another forum where a poacher seems to be more tolerated. A person's difference of opinion on why poaching occurs will never bother me nearly as much as a person who tolerates a poacher.
wtnhunt is actually the admin on other site.




Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinguide
what a shame hes an honest guy at least


I don't believe admitting to something 5 months later when confronted with all the evidence against you qualifies as honest.

Buying a license to begin with would of been honest thing to do.

Not entering in Big Buck contest would of been honest thing to do.

Admitting to something once caught red handed, not honest at all.




Quote:
Originally Posted by wtnhunt
Not trying to defend the guy or what he did, but did not see that information anywhere, is there another story on the same guy that tells this history of hunting without a license? Without more, I would not be so quick to cast judgement on another hunter not knowing more details.

Do not know the regs in Michigan either, but here you can hunt without a license if you hunt on your own land. Been many years that I have not purchased a license, and have hunted on our property, perfectly legal here. Also been a few times I have considered hunting other properties and looked them over during season while not having my license, determining whether or not I was going to hunt them before buying the license. While this guy not telling his side of the story to the public makes it look like he is probably guilty of intentionally hunting knowing he did not have his license, I do not know enough about the story other than what the article says to say he is anything more than someone who got caught violating a game law by not having a current license, which is far from being the worst of the worst in my eyes in regards to game laws, but was pretty stupid. Guessing none of us here have ever driven on expired tags or on a drivers license that was expired.

First two line
JACKSON -- Chris James of Horton pleaded guilty Monday to illegally killing a trophy buck in the archery season last fall.
James admitted he shot the 24-point whitetail before he purchased a hunting license.

That's what the whole deal is he admitted to hunting without a license. I didn't judge him a court of law did and convicted him on his own testimony.
Last edited by Turtle : 03-26-2008 at 06:33 PM.












Yes, he did admit not having a license at the time he killed the deer, he is guilty of that, and there is no argument about that. Part of my reply was to the comment in the second quote. You are calling the guy a poacher and from the way it appears you are saying he had done this type of thing before. From what I got out of the article the guy was a hunter who had no license, reason not known, and made the mistake of thinking he could get his license after killing the deer and make everything all better. Why he had no license the day he killed the deer, who knows other than him, and YES it was wrong. Pretty stupid or negligent on his part not having his license in the first place, but hardly think when it comes down to poachers that this guy is in the same league as those who deliberately do not check in deer, kill more than their limit, spotlight, kill animals out of season, trespass and kill animals on land they do not have permission on, and etc. Guess defining a poacher is up to opinions, and yours here is pretty clear, which is ok as that is your opinion. Sorry for not jumping on the bandwagon here, but I kind of like to give folks the benefit of the doubt, and when not knowing all the details, I try to err on the caution side of things when it comes to this type thing and not be so quick to label someone.

Not excusing what the guy did, but maybe just maybe he had a logical explanation for not having his license, maybe for whatever reason he thought he did have a current license only to realize after killing the deer it was not valid, who knows, I certainly do not. I really do not think anyone would intentionally go out and kill a deer without a license with full intentions of checking it in knowing they could not, only to go and buy a license the next day. Sounds to me like a stupid mistake and he got caught and is paying for it. __________________
wtnhunt


Turtle
4-Pointer
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 151



Encyclopedia Earth

Poaching

Poaching is the illegal hunting, killing or capturing of animals. This can occur in a variety of ways. Poaching can refer to the failure to comply with regulations for legal harvest, resulting in the illegal taking of wildlife that would otherwise be allowable. Examples include: Taking without a license or permit, use of a prohibited weapon or trap, taking outside of the designated time of day or year, and taking of a prohibited sex or life stage.

It's not just my definition

[onehorse]

Maybe we should have record books that are dedicated to the animals and not the hunters. Just list the score, date, method used (gun, bow, etc.), state and county, everything EXCEPT the name of the hunter. That way some of these jokers who are poaching these great animals for the notoriety won't get their egos stroked and might just decide it isn't worth the risk. Of course, I'd also like to see the risk,especially in the form of hard time, increased considerably.

[muleskinner]

I could not imagine having a trophy buck on my wall that I poached and then having to lie every time somebody came to the house. What are you going to say? " Yep, thats the one I jack lighted in a field at 2:00 in the morning", not only are they paochers, but they are life long liers! I would imagine they would have to lie to thier wife and kids too! I have no tolerance for either one regardless if it is for money or ego.

[ronn]

amen brother!!

[BruceBruce1959]

Very Well Said Muleskinner!!

Someone should start a Photo book for Poachers that have been caught.
Let the proceeds go to the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Services...