I'm not sure the spirited debate here ever would find a conclusion. Seems to me a non-believer vs a believer cannot find acceptance in either side's positions regarding certain personal beliefs. Opinions are a personal right, opinions are not a green light for misguided reform attempts. I really don't see the merit in belief bashing as there is nothing to be gained from it. How one conducts his/her life is a liberty granted to us through the constitution. Religion, in any format, is a personal right. I may not like a certain life style, or belief that one has, but it's not my job to attempt to change them into something I may think is better nor would I accept their attempts to change me. I'll let the big guy make his cuts at the end. I know this forum has the potential to create strong personal views, as we have recently seen. So what is it that are we trying to convey? I was concerned when the forum was created and continue to be concerned as personal passions/beliefs can/will generate potentially abusive debate. What I ask for and will moderate is, just keep the debate civil. There will not be any winners or losers so where do we go...........? What is to be gained?