Yeah Spiker, you are absolutely correct(IMO)about the Zeiss Conquest, a friend in South Ill has one on an 870 with a pinned barrel and it is an amazing eyepiece, Stuff like that is out of my price range anymore. My old Redfield has been really good, in 42 yrs it has come apart internally only once, had it rebuilt in around '98 and it has been fine since. But that scope was cutting edge back in it's day, I have 2 more just like it in 3-9x40mm on 2 different rifles, but these days you can get a much more quality laden scope for a lot less money than you could back then. As far as the circle business goes, I know 3 different guys who have them and not ONE OF THEM has ever used it or even bothered to play with them to see what happens when you do use them. So what's the point? There is still no substitute for actually knowing exactly what your particular gun does with said rounds at different yardages. That's all a guy needs to know!! Nuff said!!