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Are high caliber guns overkill?

13K views 29 replies 15 participants last post by  TexasRem700 
#1 ·
i myself use a 30-30 but have friends who tend to hunt with .270 and .300 in my personal opinion i believe these firearms are overkill whats youre opinion?
 
#2 ·
My personal opinion, after having used a lot of different calibers and a lot of different rifles to kill deer, is that a hunter should use whatever he or she wants, so long as it's up to the task at hand (cleanly killing deer!) ,is accurate enough and with that hunter having plenty of experience with said rifle/caliber to be effective with it.

Calling any rifle cartridge too much gun is a slippery slope, best left alone. Just where is the line to be drawn? At .223, .243, .250 Sav, .257 Roberts?? They all are well known deer killers (no, not necessarily my choices, perhaps) that are well under the venerable 30/30 in both caliber and bullet weight. I've carried rifles from .257 Roberts to 45-70 personally for deer hunting and have killed a bunch of deer with over 20 different chamberings in that mix. My experience has also told me that some of the heavier calibers have also shown to be the quickest killers. As far as the "bloodshot meat" reasoning, the worst case I've ever experienced was with a .308 Win, right between your chosen 30/30 and 30/06, actually.
 
#3 ·
I use a .270 as well as a lot of people on here & I can tell you a .270 or a .300 are not over kill the .270 & .30-06 are two of the most popular calibers
& it is about ethical kills
my 12 ga slug does a heck of a lot more damage to a deer then my .270
I would say if you are shooting at a deer with a weapon that puts a hole in it the size of a softball you have gone way over the overkill line
just my opinion

just asking in your opinion what animals do you think a .270 or .300 should be used for?
 
#5 ·
I hunt with many different rifles. My favorite deer rifle is a .270. but have played with different bullet weights.. The 130 grn do not do as much damage as the 150s. My 30/30 goes to the deer woods often, but using the leverevolutions has turned that rifle into a 200 yd gun. I use a .223 (5.56) AR for thumping hogs, which seems to be not enough gun for some people. I hunt with guys in georgia that are using 7mm mags and 300 win mags. But they won't shoot over 200 yds.i think in that aspect , they are overkills. that is a whole lot of gun to not utilize to its full potential.
 
#6 ·
Paraphrasing my old Elk Guide opinion on rifles for Elk

I am lucky to have been able to hunt twice in Idaho with a quality outfit. During the 10 days of the hunt the discussion always gets going about what rifle cartridge we should be using to go after Elk. Both times it was about 1/2 of each group of hunters carrying their regular Deer rifles that they use in their home States. The other hunters had bought a new magnum that they also may now use for hunting Deer back home. At the end of each discussion there was agreement in a couple of areas.

1. The guys carrying magnums, 7mm, 300Win, 300WM, 338Win, 340WM have the option of taking any shot that might present itself over the hunt.

2. Those of us carrying our standard calibers 270, 308, 30-06 need to be aware of what range limitations we must consider.

3. On the first hunt a guy with a 7mm mag made a great shot at 450yards hitting an Elk. It was later finished off at closer range. I would not have attempted the shot he took. My personal limitations and those of my 30-06 rifle would have made me pass on the shot.

4. My outfitters liked to see Magnums, both lead guys loved the 338 Win mag. But only if the hunter had chosen to use heavy controller expansion bullets. Even with the other magnums they want heavy for caliber controlled exp bullets not standard construction ones.

5. My outfitters also were frustrated with the number of hunters that either can't shoot, or are scared of their rifles. More than once the outfitter said I would rather have the shooter bring less of a rifle if they can shoot it.

6. I did get a smaller 4x4 on my second trip, at around 150 yards the 30-06 with a 180gr Nosler Part did its part. Not a tough shot and not very far away. A magnum was not needed for the shot I took.

Karl
 
#8 ·
This will be my first year hunting and I have a DPMS AP4 308 Win that I will be using. Is that too much rifle? I just want a clean kill. Something that doesn't just injure the animal and leave it in pain, but also, something that doesn't knock a softball sized hole through it either.

Thanks
 
#11 ·
Be careful about your choice of ammo in .308 Win

It sounded like from your email that you are new to Deer hunting. Your .308 Win is a great cartridge and is perfect for Deer. Two things that you have to be careful of.

1. The most important thing is to be sure to not use Military style FMJ (full metal jacket) loadings. These are sold everywhere for the .308 Win and are only good for target practice at the range and for pests like Coyotes.
Use non hollow point pointed soft point expanding bullet ammo.

2. Verify by checking your States DNR regs about magazine capacity limits for a semi-auto used in Deer hunting. Some States require a semi-auto only use 5 round magazines. There are places to look for the hunting magazines like gunbroker.com, cabellas, and gander mountain.

Karl
 
#12 ·
Good post Karl! I still have to get the new/old pre 64win 88 to the range, in what caliber? 308 win. :yes: I have to admit this is the first 308 for me and in the old win 88 lever action should be a great PA combination. From what I've read the 165 gr bullets perform well in the 308?
 
#13 ·
I also use the 165gr in everything .308 cal except Elk

I am jealous, I always wanted a Winchester M88 in .308 Win. If I can have all my wishes it would also be a carbine version with the 19inch barrel. I think that Winchester is using a 1 in 12 twist for that rifle and you should get good accuracy up to 180gr. That is as heavy as you would want to go anyway with it's case capacity. How is your trigger on your M88, I have handled a couple that were not the greatest. I admit to being a trigger snob.

Karl
 
#14 · (Edited)
will head to the range soon and see how things stack up. I've wanted a 88 for a long time and hopefully the wait was worth it. I've got to decide on what scope to put on it asap. It came with a leupold 1.75x5 that I took off and installed on the 870. I've got an old Redfield 2x7 that just may fit my needs for this rifle. Tomorrow is an off day so setting up a scope is on the bucket list of to do's.
 
#17 ·
Good luck at the range & that scope sounds like a perfect companion to me. My M88/.308 wears an M8 4X Leupold now and it shoots 165gr Hornady Interbonds very well. The load is from HSM (Hunting Shack.com) and is rated at around 2650 FPS. Not a screamer, but about the most accurate load I've used in that rifle @ 1 1/4".

You're gonna love that rifle!! :thumbup:
 
#16 ·
"something that doesn't knock a softball sized hole through it either."

I have a Mosin-Nagant in 7.62x54R (only fractionally larger than a .308)(.308 = 7.62x51) and use a bronze tipped round when hunting. I will admit to rushing the shot when the 8 pt buck stopped for just a moment from chasing the doe he was after, but that moment's pause was all I needed. It may not have been a softball sized hole, but I could have easily put my fist in the exit wound. I put the round directly into the right front shoulder, instead of slightly above and behind . The bronze tipped round drove through both shoulders leaving the left front leg barely attached by the time I finally found the buck.

Oh, the range? My hunting spot is a deer crossroads and I have several paths that criss cross my property. The "spot" is about 95 - 100 yards away, but the path these two were on was only about 50 yards away. So the buck was maybe 55 yards away at most when I pulled the trigger.

So just what is "too much rifle"? For the distance, I probably could have used a bow and arrow and it might have been too much. But you just never know when and where the crazy critters are going to show up. "Too much rifle" will always be subject to discussion and a personal preference.

I for one will not stick my nose into what other hunters use, because that's one of the joys we have here in the states, the ability to choose.
 
#18 ·
Not all hollow points are the same...

I understand after looking at the link you had for the Winchester ammo that their's is a hunting bullet but most hollow point ammo I have seen in .308 Win has been target ammo. Those hollow point bullets do not belong in your rifle during hunting season and that is what I was warning him about. In many ways my Nosler Ballistic Tips that I like are hollow point bullets with the plastic tip added. The main difference is that the jacket is designed for expansion in a Deer. Some warn that my Ballistic Tips expand to fast on Deer, I have not seen it personally but would not recommend it for Elk. You magnum shooters should probibly always stay with controlled expansion bullets just because the velocities you are getting wreck havok with standard constructed bullets.

Karl
 
#21 ·
OP,

A few things are more important than cartridge or caliber.

Shot placement
Knowing your limitations
Knowing the limitations of the cartridge and gun

Bottom line, to each his own. My preference is a 300 WM with a load I develop for the animal I am hunting.

I have seen this question asked in many different forums and it always ended up in an argument. Not here. I like this place!
 
#23 ·
OP,

A few things are more important than cartridge or caliber.

Shot placement
Knowing your limitations
Knowing the limitations of the cartridge and gun

Bottom line, to each his own. My preference is a 300 WM with a load I develop for the animal I am hunting.

I have seen this question asked in many different forums and it always ended up in an argument. Not here. I like this place!
Very wise words. A good humain kill that does not destroy the meat is all you need. I personaly belive minimum for Deer is .243 I would be worried more about underkill than over kill. Personaly I have taken and droped deer at 200+ yards with my .270. I do however hand load all my ammo and pratice shots longer thatn 200yrs and shoot weekly.
 
#24 ·
"I do however hand load all my ammo and pratice shots longer thatn 200yrs and shoot weekly."

TR700,
I'm jealous . . . about the weekly part. Wish I had the time and $$ to do that for most of the year. I will take the time before season starts to make sure I can hit the broad side of a barn (well, a little better than that, anyway<grin>).
Welcome to DHC from a "neighbor". I'm "just" up 281 from you, 'bout where 281 & 183 meet.

CD,
Better words couldn't have been spoken on the subject. Especially liked how you finished, "Not here. I like this place." No arguments from me on that one!

RR
 
#30 ·
TR700,
I'm jealous . . . about the weekly part. Wish I had the time and $$ to do that for most of the year. I will take the time before season starts to make sure I can hit the broad side of a barn (well, a little better than that, anyway<grin>).
Welcome to DHC from a "neighbor". I'm "just" up 281 from you, 'bout where 281 & 183 meet.
I am just lucky to be off every other Friday so me and my work budies hit the range that day down at the BlackHawk range in SW San Antonio. Otherwise I go during the eavning right after work.
 
#25 ·
Thank you.
I left one forum because of constant bickering.

I can't say Im your neighbor but going to the Texas pan handle in a few weeks to hunt deer. Claude to be exact.

I got lucky this year. Drew a ml deer tag in nm and joined a lease in Claude. I'm hoping for a good year. Have never harvested a mulie and it has been six years since I got my last deer. Other than the one I hut with my car.
 
#26 ·
I have shot Elk, Mule deer, whitetail, antelope and pigs;
I shoot a .270, and a .243; I have a 30-06 BAR that I take to Alaska for back-up for bears when fishing (without scope); A 270 win will take ANY game in north america, and I have dropped Elk in their tracks with a 243 win, with 100 gr. hornady interlock; There is no need for these big magnums; It's all marketing;

Look at your ballistics tables for various rounds; a 270 will outshoot an '06
out to 100 yds, then BC and bullet weight take over;

when you are talking about energy in the 2,000 lb range, what difference does 40 lbs. make?

People with more money than time or sense always want the latest and best (and often not the best)

The only caliber I gave up is 22-250, after I dicovered the 24's will outshoot them in every catagory:wacko:
 
#27 ·
I think if someone showed up at an outfitter's camp with a 243 win for elk they probably would send you home. No disrespect here but 243 is a deer caliber cartridge, not reccomended for elk. I'm not a big mag guy either. I know all the arguments that they kill deer with 22's but it's not legal. For elk, 270 win would be the starting point and go up from there. One of things we try to do here is to steer hunters in the right direction for various situations so I'll just say please use something bigger than a 243 win for elk. We'll agree to disagree on this one I assume.
 
#29 ·
Elk are not small animals...

I have had the luck of hunting Elk twice and was successful on one occasion. I killed a smaller 4x4 with my 30-06. The bullet passed through a shoulder then the spine then exited. It was a Nosler Partition 180gr, I can only shutter to think I might have lost the animal with something less effective. If you could always get a lung shot broadside at <200 yards almost any Deer cartidge will work. The problem is that Elk don't make it easy for you and you have to take the shot that you get. I was below the animal and held for where I thought was the correct spot. The bullet's path was upward through the animal and it hit alot of bone. The Elk was dead instantly and that is what's important.

Karl
 
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