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61K views 68 replies 12 participants last post by  Hunting Man 
#1 ·
First of Im new to the forum and still rather new to hunting. Mostly due to a lack of places to hunt. So this is my first real season of busy hunting and I have still yet to claim my first kill so any tip/trick will be greatly appreciated.

With that being said heres my question. I bought a New Frontier Cascade Magnum muzzleloader from Cabelas a season or two ago. Its a rather cheap low end gun but a good gun for someone new to muzzleloaders (so I was told). but lately I have been reading reports about guns similar to this one exploading even when used as directed. any comments? More than one story has envolved the shooter losing a hand, I would be rather upset if this was the event with my first deer in my sights.

thanks all
 
#35 ·
they recalled guns that had issues with the breech plugs popping out. This was in 1995. BPI "Current owner of CVA" still has the recall issue out and is taking care of those who may have been injured by the recall rifle.

Gary,



Thanks for taking the time to write. The Kodiak Pro rifles have a Bergara Barrel that is manufactured in our factory in Bergara Spain (see Bergara Barrels ). Bergara Barrels is one of the fastest growing, and certainly one of the most technically advanced barrel making facilitiies in the world.



I am sure you are reading the “opinions” of Randy Wakeman. Randy is certainly a talented and persuasive writer. But unfortunately he is a little misguided. His online articles are packed with untruths, half-truths and misleading statements designed to turn shooters away from CVA products. I think if you go back and read these articles again with an open mind you will see that this guy is on some sort of vendetta and has really gone off the deep end in his hatred of our company. Why??? I don’t know, I wish I did. O’Neil Williams, the host of the popular hunting and fishing show Outside with O’Neil Williams, recently forwarded a similar email to our company CEO. Attached is the response. I have sent it to you because this letter explains things pretty well. Please take the time to read it. If, after reading this letter, you still have doubts, please send me your telephone number and I will be happy give you a call. In the mean time I suggest that you do as all of the editors of the major gun magazines are doing….ignore him.



Many regards,





Mark Hendricks

VP of Technical Development

Blackpowder Products, Inc

770-449-4687, ext 115
O’Neill:



Thank you for passing on your viewer’s concerns about the most recent Randy Wakeman web blog. Unfortunately, we have received quite a few inquiries regarding the garbage that this guy posts on the internet. Randy Wakeman is from the Chicago area and apparently makes the bulk of his income performing magic tricks in Chicago bar rooms. From what we know, he has never made any substantial amount of money as a “journalist” – as is evidenced by the fact that, to my knowledge, no respectable gun magazine has ever published anything that he has written. Not surprising really, as these publications are very concerned about maintaining their integrity. This is obviously not a concern of Mr. Wakeman or some of the persons and/or companies that he is, from all appearances, associated with in his smear campaign against BPI and our CVA brand. I am sure, however, that he is a very good magician, as he is obviously very capable of deceiving people in to believing whatever he wants them to believe, as is evidenced by Greg’s email to you. On a side note, you can actually see Mr. Wakeman on You Tube doing his magic tricks. It is really quite funny.



O’Neill, you have been working with us for a long time now, you have visited our factory, and you have shot our guns thousands of times, so I know that I am preaching to the choir on this. However, you may often have to address these types of emails, so I do want to make a few brief points about some of the things Mr. Wakeman says about CVA, BPI, and our manufacturer and owner, Dikar.



· Test Firing -- Mr. Wakeman denigrates us for not test firing every single muzzleloader that we produce. What he fails to mention is that no other major muzzleloading manufacturer test fires all of their guns either -- not T/C, not Knight, not Traditions. So, why does he not call all of them to task also? That is a good question, and one that I do not have an answer for. Are they paying him off? Who knows? Certainly, if Mr. Wakeman feels that all muzzleloaders should be test fired, this is a valid opinion, but singling out CVA alone as a “menace” is ridiculous and dishonest. As of now, industry standards and government regulations in the USA do not require, or even recommend, the proof firing of muzzleloaders prior to sale. In some other countries, such proof firing is required for any gun, center-fire or muzzleloader, to be sold. Any CVA gun (or T/C, or Knight, or Traditions) sold in these countries would by law have to be proof fired before it could be legally sold. Of course, being the master of illusion that he is, Mr. Wakeman does not mention this in his article. Instead, he states only that CVA guns are “illicit and illegal” in several foreign countries.



· CVA Voluntary Recall -- Yes, CVA did have a recall of one design of in-line gun that was made in 1995 and 1996 -- that’s almost 15 years ago! This is no secret. In fact, the recall is still in effect and we mention this in all of our catalogs and on our web page. The necessity for this recall made for some very difficult times for our Company, and indeed for some people who were injured with these guns. However, CVA took full responsibility at that time, and BPI (the current owner of the CVA brand) is continuing the efforts to find all 80,000 of these guns. So far, about 96% have been accounted for. For those who were injured with these guns, CVA or BPI has worked with those persons in good faith and given monetary settlements in the more serious cases. Because we have taken responsibility for these guns, no case involving a recall gun has ever gone to trial.



· Other Gun Failures – Mr. Wakeman makes mention of other (non-recall) CVA guns that have failed. Have there been such accidents? Yes, there have been, just as there have been with T/C guns, Knight guns, and Traditions guns. Muzzleloading can be a very dangerous activity, especially if proper safety precautions are not followed. And, for sure, CVA is more exposed to this kind of thing because we sell from two to ten times more guns than any other manufacturer. We have seen guns fail due to being double loaded, loaded with smokeless powder, short started, shot with the barrel obstructed, etc., etc.,. You name it, we have seen it. These types of accidents can, and do, happen with all brands of muzzleloaders, but, for some reason, Mr. Wakeman only writes about those that happen with a CVA. Only in one case am I aware of Mr. Wakeman writing about any accident involving a muzzleloader other than a CVA. The accident occurred with a Savage muzzleloader (and Mr. Wakeman just happens to be on Savage’s payroll). Anyway, a famous muzzleloading expert and writer by the name of Toby Bridges had an accident with a Savage. Unlike his positions when a CVA gun is involved, Mr. Wakeman implied that Toby Bridges misused the gun -- which he possibly could have, but such latitude is never afforded to CVA by Mr. Wakeman.





That’s just three, O’Neill. I could go on and on, but I am not sure that your computer could handle the volume if I were to defend BPI/CVA against every false accusation that Mr. Wakeman has made against us. Why does he do it? Well, it could be that Savage (a competitor of CVA) encourages him to defame us. Many of our competitors are very frustrated in their attempts to compete with CVA, as we have been the number one selling brand of muzzleloader for almost a decade now. I hope, however, that this is not true, as Savage is a very well respected company within our industry. However, that being said, I cannot understand why Savage, or its president, Ron Coburn, would associate themselves either directly or indirectly with this kind of trash. Another explanation could be that Mr. Wakeman is getting paid in some way by the lawyers that he recommends to persons who have had accidents with CVA guns. From all appearances, he is a “rainmaker” for this one particular law firm, so generating business for them by whipping up all of this stuff on the internet may well indeed be another source of income for this self proclaimed gun expert. Or, does he just carry out vendettas for this law firm? He seems pretty tight with them, and they are the only law firm that has ever taken BPI/Dikar/CVA to trial – a case that they lost by unanimous verdict.



In the end, who knows what motivates Mr. Wakeman to pursue so voraciously his “internet terrorism” of our Company. O’Neill, you have been a great friend to CVA for many years. You and I both have shot these guns together. I started with the Company right about the time that the problem with the recall guns began. Since that time, I and my employees have worked very hard to rebuild the CVA brand, and we have done so, making it the number one muzzleloading brand in the USA. Over the past 14 years I have tested each model personally. I have shot our CVA guns thousands of times. Our employees and our families shoot them. You shoot them on TV. We sponsor shoots with consumers, Boy Scouts, Bass Pro, Cabela’s, gun writers, etc., etc., -- and never, not even once, has a CVA gun failed in any of these activities.



Sorry to go on for so long, O’Neill, but this situation really bothers me. Not that I am all that mad, but more so just disappointed. Disappointed that anyone could stoop as low as Mr. Wakeman and his associates have done. It says a lot about the culture we live in today, doesn’t it? I guess the internet has become the “National Enquirer” of the modern age -- a place where anyone can say anything about anyone, no matter how false or misleading, and then claim that it is all protected by “freedom of speech.” The internet is indeed the refuge of last resort for Mr. Wakeman and his lot, unencumbered by editors, fact checkers, or any sense of journalistic integrity.



Best regards,



Dudley McGarity

CEO
 
#40 ·
they recalled guns that had issues with the breech plugs popping out. This was in 1995. BPI "Current owner of CVA" still has the recall issue out and is taking care of those who may have been injured by the recall rifle.

FrontierGander, If you insist on posting all this CVA nonsense then you absolutely deserve all the replies you are getting in return but don't think anything you say or do is ever going to change history.
As the record shows CVA manufactured dangerous weapons and as far as this poster is concerned, they continue marketing below quality weapons even under new ownership/management.

("BPI "Current owner of CVA" still has the recall issue out and is taking care of those who may have been injured by the recall rifle")

They "legally" have to continue the recall until all known weapons that may have been affected have been examined, adjusted or better yet, destroyed.


And even though BPI has "legally" continued the recall they also didn't fail to make the following known.

Blackpowder Products, Inc. purchased the assets of CVA, Inc.
in May of 1999 Blackpowder Products assumed no liability for any product manufactured or sold prior to January 1, 1998.
Blackpowder Products, Inc., is continuing the Connecticut Valley Firearms, Inc., recall.


(they recalled guns that had issues with the breech plugs popping out. This was in 1995.)

So now finally, IF there were injuries reported back as far as 1995, How come the so called "Voluntarty" recall didn't take place until 2 years later?
FG, it's obvious the more you shine light on the CVA troubles from the past the more everyone get's to point out your ignorance to the facts.
 
#36 ·
After all that I still wouldn't purchase a new CVA product right now. Having to defend their products nationally says something is/was wrong. I've said in the past CVA made really low quality ml rifles and I stand by that remark. They have improved their line-up greatly today. Too much baggage/history for me. The offer is still open to sell the flint mountain rifle as it is no match for a TC PA hunter.
 
#38 · (Edited)
$325.00 would buy it. I didn't call it junk, you did. It's just not up to TC quality for a comparable product. FG, you don't remember the old CVA kit guns from their humble beginings and the years that CVA spent trying to catch up on quality of other ml rifles. I actually have one! I haven't purchased one of their new rifles because of the poor quality of their past overall product line. The 70's and early 80's mountain rifles were a decent rifle for the money but simply lay them side by side to a TC Hawken, Renagade, PA Hunter and the quality difference jumps right out, with the TC winning every time. I won't comment on the new stuff like you are shooting today and I see the target results you achieve, but for me I'd purchase a TC rifle just knowing their great product history. I may just have to get a new model CVA just to test against the Triumph or Knight, my guess is that it would be a decent rifle for the money but wouldn't make me want to get another one. That's my opinion.
 
#44 ·
It means after all this time CVA & their affiliates are still trying to avoid taking FULL responsibility for all the individual's involved. That's how I read it.
 
#45 ·
Not taking responsibility? BPI doesnt even have to cover the recall guns as they were not the owners of CVA when that happened, but they are doing it anyway to make things right.

Bruce, Traditions has lawsuits out against them as well. Along with TC And knight. Why do you turn a blind eye to this?

Matter of fact, look up lawsuits against remington while you are at it.
 
#46 ·
Lawsuits against other companies are irrelevant as they're probably only minor suits like patent infringement or some other Minor claim,, CVA on the other hand was sued and LOST because of UNSAFE weapons which caused bodily injury.
fyi TRADITIONS has Won every claim regarding bodily injury against them. Traditions is also the industry Leader on weapon safety components. FG. You should just buy a Traditions Vortek or comparable TC muzzleloader so you'll finally be able to find happiness and safe shooting during your shooting adventures AND finally end your need to tinker or defend a brand that doesn't deserve your loyalty.
 
#47 ·
Bruce, traditions still exploded, just as every other firearm manf. has done throughout history.

Already looked at the vortex, the plastic trigger frame is most likely its weakest link.

Tinkering never ends, i've owned traditions, TC, knight, they all got tinkered with, especially that traditions!

I shoot more than you, and every other regular on here put together, Don't try telling me that my gun is not safe.

Now i am done with you bruce.
 
#48 ·
FG, I've never ever heard of a Traditions muzzleloader or a TC muzzleloader or a Savage muzzleloader or a Knight muzzleloader ever exploding due to Manufacturer Error. period!

I think your age and inexperience reflects your want and desire to pass CVA's issues onto other manufacturers but It wont ever happen my friend, avid shooters/hunters are fully aware of the risks involved when shooting ANY muzzleloader but by comparison and as history will prove, they all know a CVA muzzleloader just may be putting those shooters/hunters at MUCH GREATER RISKS for injury.

You attack other members posts and every other muzzleloader brand and I think you expect each person will just cowar to your rants and raves, Well By Now, I think all the DHC members have read enough of your ridiculous rhetoric to realize how poorly CVA muzzleloader's are made (by your own admission on how you have to tamper, adjust or totally modify ALL of your CVA muzzleloaders) , nobody on this site has ever made any wrong or misguided claims against you or CVA muzzleloaders but for you to make BOGUS claims against other muzzleloader manufacturers is totally absurd and you really should rethink how and what you say about other muzzleloader companies and consider the liabilities involved regarding the things you say.
 
#49 ·
Im glad you brought up the inexperienced part!!
This shows your experience with todays modern rifles and powders.
http://www.deerhuntersclub.com/forums/muzzleloader-hunting/7006-question-about-misfires.html

As Rogo put it, The forums info providers are out of date on here.

Hey i had a 1851 confederate navy .44 blow apart in my hand due to cheap materials, cabelas replaced that one and replaced the replacement 2 more times before letting me pick out something else. If you want junk, try one of them.

My experience with muzzle loaders has been going on 13 years so yes, i do have a bit of knowledge about them.
 
#55 ·
I'm pretty easy to get along with here as long as the integrity of the members is not compromised. As a moderator, I allow a whole lot of banter, disagreement, ect, however, when I see attacks on this site's membership I'm going to delete or ban those posts. I have (never) banned anyone from here and I'm not using it now as any sort of weapon, just stating I'm pretty close right now. Lets keep things in a debate format and keep the personal attacks out of here. I'd sure like to see the subject change though because there's no end to the tunnel or hole that's being dug!
 
#56 ·
FG,

It's fun playing Wyatt Earp. I think you'd like it. It's expensive to get started though. I had to buy 4 guns, holsters, clothes, cart to haul it around, and reloading gear. Then after that you have travel expenses, reloading supplies.

I'm thinking of hanging it up with everything going up in price, plus ridiculous gas prices.

I'll just do more fly fishing in the summer, and hunt in the fall.
 
#59 ·
don't look like he's carrying so it can't be me. I'm not mad fg, people don't like it when I get mad, you got bodies all over the place all shot up and only one guy standing at the bar, holsters filled, barrels still hot. And nobody asking any questions. They thought he was old, too old but he proved them wrong. He never wanted the fight the youngsters just pushed and prodded him into it. If those youngsters would have looked at what the old man was carrying they shoul have moved on. You see by experience and knowledge he had learned in order to survive use only the best firearms in the land..... TC TC TC :lol::lol::lol: That's how I became The Hunting Man!:coffee:
 
G
#61 ·
In defense of Randy

Which this thread is turning to an old fashion pee'ing contest. I have read all of Randy Wakefields postings and can say that he might be in the pocket of Savage but in his articles he does mention and talk about Thompson Center products from the new Impact up to the Cadillac Encore. I am thinking that his critics might give him a degree of creditability? I know living in the Northeast that Savage is located in Westfield Ma and Thompson Center is located in New Hampshire soon to move to Smith&Wesson in Springfield Ma. Just where is CVA factory located and the other one mentioned in the postings?
 
G
#62 ·
randy knows what he is talking about!

I called randy when i blew my right hand off out hunting with the pipebomb they call tradition inline 50 cal. muzzelloader !!!! he understands the frustration and loss im going threw!!!! he makes it all clear and TRUE statements on this product! people need to know!!! and i commend him on having such knowledge on the subject! I hope you take this to heart and beleive everything he states because this has changed my life forever and the fact it was not my fault!!! makes me very angry! EVERYONE NEEDS TO KNOW!!!!!!! thanks randy for your sapport for us SAFE HUNTERS!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#63 ·
I called randy when i blew my right hand off out hunting with the pipebomb they call tradition inline 50 cal. muzzelloader !!!! he understands the frustration and loss im going threw!!!! he makes it all clear and TRUE statements on this product! people need to know!!! and i commend him on having such knowledge on the subject! I hope you take this to heart and beleive everything he states because this has changed my life forever and the fact it was not my fault!!! makes me very angry! EVERYONE NEEDS TO KNOW!!!!!!! thanks randy for your sapport for us SAFE HUNTERS!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice try but I'm not buying your off the wall internet story about blowing your right hand off. If you want me to believe your story then you need to back it up with some facts like a newpaper report or a police report or a hospital report or a television news report. I think it's truly amazing how many "Unregistered" posters will chime in on posts with nonsense like this.
 
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