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Black Horn Powder

12K views 30 replies 6 participants last post by  buckfever 
#1 ·
Someone once corrected me on the proper use of Black Horn powder here. Now that person is violating the caution on the front of the jar." engineered for modern (in-line) muzzleloaders with 209 ignition". I think it's pretty clear that shooting BH in a side lock would violate the product's disclaimer. Please think before tinkering with firearms or modifying their structural integrity serious injury could occur! If there are any suggestions to alter certain firearm parts I will consult prior with Buckfever and then delete such posts. I don't see where the cautionary posts have had productive results. There is no question at all that factory warranties are being voided.
 
#2 · (Edited)
I am in touch with Western Powders and they dont have any problems shooting BH209 in a sidelock with the 209 adapter. They gave me 2 thumbs up when i was doing duplexing BH209 with jim shockeys gold in my hawken, no safety issues as the pressures were more than safe.

Blackhorn doesnt recommend shooting the powder in open style rifles, Buckhorn, knight mk93 - lk93 - White rifles, muzzle loaders that use plunger style rifles. breech plugs that use the slot for removal " screw driver style plug"

My mag spark exploded to the the manf. changing up the original design, unknown the to patent holder until now. They weakened it and this could have happened with ANY powder.

Oops forgot, after shipping i made under $90 on it. Add the work i put into it, thrown in 30-40 360gr lee minie bullets i made, assortment of targets + $60 durasight QD rings, i basically gave it away.
 
G
#4 ·
fg although i find your experiments interesting, i really believe your treading on hazardous ground here. its one thing to do the modifications and experiments on your own but there is no disclaimer and you are taking no responsibility when you post these "outside manufacturers recommendations" things you are doing. its obvious you kinda know what you are doing but you might be putting ideas in the heads of those that may not fully understand or know exactly what it is you are doing. i really think you're being a little more than irresponsible. just my opinion
 
G
#6 · (Edited)
cool stuff. bet that ain't no cva in that site. still i like said you may kinda know what you are doing doesn't mean everyone reading your posts has your knowledge. i still think you are being somewhat irresponsible. its one thing to answer a question its another to promote these things you are doing, which are outside the MANUFACTURERS (not some guy experimenting) guide lines.
 
#9 ·
Ask for Don Luhr, hes been well aware of me shooting it in sidelocks.

The safety failure i had was due to the specs being changed without the owner being aware. Don pretty much said that since it happened, it'd probably be best to not use it again for safety reasons.

I can always use the duplex load like i did before but that just slowed things down.
 
G
#10 ·
Ask for Don Luhr, hes been well aware of me shooting it in sidelocks.

The safety failure i had was due to the specs being changed without the owner being aware. Don pretty much said that since it happened, it'd probably be best to not use it again for safety reasons.

I can always use the duplex load like i did before but that just slowed things down.
plus diddling with other things, pressures, no doubt
 
G
#13 ·
what pressures are your modification to components rated/tested to? what is the pressure of your mixing of powders? if you can't answer those questions with scientific back up then you are promoting dangerous behavior. simple
 
G
#17 · (Edited)
Keeping QuotesChimp

Keeping QuotesChimp in mind, let's look at the insurance contract. When you buy an insurance policy, you promise to pay the insurance company a specific amount of money within a specific period of time. In return, your insurance company agrees to pay benefits upon the occurrence of a specified event or events. Ben�efits are the payments by the insurance company (to you or others) as required under the insurance policy. In life insurance, the "event" is the death of the named insured. In an auto insurance policy, the event might be an auto accident in which the insured is injured. In health insurance, it is receiving medical care covered by the policy. As long as you pay your premiums, the court will enforce the insurance company's obligation to pay you benefits.
 
G
#19 ·
i cant answer your questions when i dont know what the question was.

Pressure ratings on what? and what modification to what?
the nipple even without the screw up with manufacturing (besides that would have been okay-ed by the designer or they wouldn't have built it.)(here's a word you may want to look up. liability.) and the pressures of the powder mixing or using powders not recommended for side locks. any mod you made or any factors outside the recommended applications.

now you sound like my kid. what balh balh?
 
#20 ·
Oh okay the deplex load you mean?

Western Powders Okay'd my 5 grain jim shockeys gold booster charge i used in my sidelock to help ignite the BH209 with a #11 cap. They said it produces no where near enough spike in pressure to cause any harm.

Seems like its the only thing left now unless Hubbard gets a new company to build his mag sparks to his specs. I emailed Lehigh to see if he'd take over the building.
 
#21 ·
frontiergander, are you a certified gunsmith? Are you Qualified to mechanically adjust or modify weapons or have you been trained by Connecticut Valley Arms to teach others how to modify or mechanically adjust/modify their weapons?

Personally I think your willingness and desire to help others is outstanding but I think you're putting yourself in areas where you shouldnt be putting yourself.

It's one thing to explain cleaning procedures on muzzleloaders or offer advice/tips on how a shooter might be able to develop better accuracy by using different bullets or trying different gun powders but I think there should be a limit as to the amount of information you offer people, SOME information is helpful to the shooter, TOO MUCH information could be harmful to the shooter.
I don't think anyone here is out of line with you or attacking you over how you boast about the ways you tamper with your weapons,
I think you're missing the whole point everyone is trying to pass along to you, it's okay to be helpful but you have to remember that some of the advice you give about altering/upgrading/tinkering/tampering/modifying or whatever else you want to call it could be procedures that cuse someone to get hurt and as far as I'm concerned you're more than welcome to do as you please with any weapon you own but for GOD'S sake don't allow your desire to help others be the advice that could lead to someone elses misfortune.

Just because you're mechanically inclined and capable of upgrading you shouldn't assume everyone else is capable as well.

Do you see the point we're all trying to make here and don't you understand why we're concerned? Dude it's your safety as well as others. :yes:
 
#23 ·
which is fine but doesnt give you the right to pass along the same info. if someone needs answers like that, send them to the same places you got your ok's from. that way if something happens you're free and clear of the outcomes.
 
#24 ·
Adjusting a firing pin bushing wont cause anyone any harm. So yes, i will pass that kind of info along.

Testing powders, primers and bullets is another thing that gets passed along. Others think primers dont make a difference, i show the difference they make.

I dont have to explain anything to be honest, if you or anyone have questions, Ask. I get PM's here and on other forums asking for advice and help and i do my best to help them out.
 
#26 ·
Western Powder rep, Don Lewis, who I spoke to, was fully aware of the mishap that FG had. His, personal opinion was he didn't want the general public modifying/altering/ tinkerinr around with ML firearms. He thought is was a bad idea. He also stated that it might be a good idea for them to change their web site to include a statement that BH powder is for in-line ml firearms only. This shows they are not comfortable with general public doing what FG does. I think the subject has become something the owner/moderators of this site need to discuss and make a decision, regarding appropriate information to members that is passed along here.
 
#27 ·
I agree with you HM, and I agree with Don Lewis, of course it's a bad idea. "any" form of modifying/altering or tinkering on any mechanical apparatus becomes susceptible to failure.
when that tampering involves firearms, it puts peoples lives at risk.
 
#28 ·
BB, I'm thinking safety all the way and then secondly, what happens to warranty issues involving misuse/experiments with the firearm. FG, what you do is purely your business 100%, what we consider unsafe practices or indications of unsafe practices becomes our business to deal with here, especially when we believe members could be harmed in any way. I think we've done our level best to convey our honest concerns with some of the alterations you've posted, which could lead to others following in your path. I think we'd all be much better off if future posts were simply range results, loads, bullets, rifles, ect. This, I believe, benefits all without too much liability concerns.
 
#31 ·
I agree as well HM and BB.

FG, just dont go overboard with what info your relaying. Like Don Lewis said some stuff the general public doesnt need to know about. We dont want a newbie to blow his fingers off trying to "fix" something when he doesnt have the expertise.
 
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